Furlough ending and lots of jobs available

[MLMbotsno]

Ex colleague on furlough since the start moaning that furlough ends and may lose job. Had a whole year of staying at home paid furlough and knew this was a possibility did nothing to train or look for alternative to travel industry role of cabin crew.

Some sectors are calling out for staff but feels since cabin crew not all back should keep being paid. In normal times excess staff are laid off redundancy etc and have to go source another job.
In my opinion furlough has gone on long enough aibu? Cannot pay people to sit around anymore look fir another role.
Yabu furlough should continue for cabin crew etc to wait until sector fully recovers.

[quote choixx]@OverTheRubicon but you aren't comparing the same situation. This was millions of people whose jobs were stopped by the government in order to reduce the spread of a virus. They wanted to keep millions of people complacent & at home & they wanted to keep companies & jobs going where possible once things reopened.

Of course the system wasn't perfect & I agree that the SE were hit hard. However in terms of the economy & reducing the spread furlough was a good thing. I can see that despite working the whole time. [/quote]
Yes, absolutely agree with this, during the early stages of lockdown and uncertainty. However we are now in a position where for the entire summer there have been huge numbers of jobs available, and people often not taking them because it risked them losing benefits or their furlough money. I do appreciate that this is mostly the fault of a crappy benefits system that puts people at massive risk of not being able to sign back on if they take a summer job or try out a new job.

However the end result is a lot of people being paid not to work, while hospitality venues and shops couldn't run a full service and recoup lockdown losses, for lack of employees, and there are masses of jobs out there in so many sectors.

That's mad, and in the long run, will likely hurt the people it's supposed to be helping right now, by letting them hold onto hope when a good number of them could have done a course in JavaScript, or lorry driving, or contacted the number in the window of the local shop, and be earning a salary by now.

It’s all very well people saying lots of jobs available— in certain sectors yes but I too wouldn’t have exactly rushed out there if I was cabin crew to go and pack vegetables etc, unless I really needed the money. Also some flight crew ‘will’ be coming back— easyJet for instance haven’t started a great many of their routes till November 1st. Unfortunately though I do know it’s more likely they will retain more staff with EU passports - and we know why that is and it’s not covid.

However we are now in a position where for the entire summer there have been huge numbers of jobs available, and people often not taking them because it risked them losing benefits or their furlough money. I do appreciate that this is mostly the fault of a crappy benefits system that puts people at massive risk of not being able to sign back on if they take a summer job or try out a new job.

However the end result is a lot of people being paid not to work, while hospitality venues and shops couldn't run a full service and recoup lockdown losses, for lack of employees, and there are masses of jobs out there in so many sectors.

But is this actually true statistically, I mean a waitress isn't go to become a HGV driver & a cabin crew person isn't necessarily be able to work as a chef.

Lots of hospitality workers have got other jobs with better pay/conditions so don't want to go back. Supermarkets for example have recruited more people.

That's mad, and in the long run, will likely hurt the people it's supposed to be helping right now, by letting them hold onto hope when a good number of them could have done a course in JavaScript, or lorry driving, or contacted the number in the window of the local shop, and be earning a salary by now.

There are thousands of people in this country who have HGV licenses & don't want the job & Im not sure it's so easy to train as one.

If I lost my job tmw I wouldn't be a HGV driver either.

@choixx

However we are now in a position where for the entire summer there have been huge numbers of jobs available, and people often not taking them because it risked them losing benefits or their furlough money. I do appreciate that this is mostly the fault of a crappy benefits system that puts people at massive risk of not being able to sign back on if they take a summer job or try out a new job.

However the end result is a lot of people being paid not to work, while hospitality venues and shops couldn't run a full service and recoup lockdown losses, for lack of employees, and there are masses of jobs out there in so many sectors.

But is this actually true statistically, I mean a waitress isn't go to become a HGV driver & a cabin crew person isn't necessarily be able to work as a chef.

Lots of hospitality workers have got other jobs with better pay/conditions so don't want to go back. Supermarkets for example have recruited more people.

That's mad, and in the long run, will likely hurt the people it's supposed to be helping right now, by letting them hold onto hope when a good number of them could have done a course in JavaScript, or lorry driving, or contacted the number in the window of the local shop, and be earning a salary by now.

There are thousands of people in this country who have HGV licenses & don't want the job & Im not sure it's so easy to train as one.

If I lost my job tmw I wouldn't be a HGV driver either.

You keep saying hgv driver, but there are so many other jobs open right now, from delivery driving and supermarkets to cybersecurity and social media.

The waitress (/waiter) wouldn't need to change jobs, the demand is absolutely massive. Cabin crew may not be suited to every job out there, but nor have the hundred of thousands of other people who were made redundant in recent years pre-covid, but I can only imagine the outcry if a factory was moved overseas and after an extended period of leave at public expense, former workers announced that they didn't fancy working in care homes or doing deliveries, but wanted to stay a bit longer being paid while waiting for a new factory that might never come. And cabin crew have very transferrable skills that should land them something considerably more comfortable than those jobs.

@ohnotanotherusername

I'm with you OP. I know too many people on furlough who have been lording it up, some even boasting about being paid to not work.

A firend of mine was due to retire in May 2020 but she decided to 'stay on' when furlough was offered so she had over a year of still being paid.

I walked past a shop on a retail park this morning and in the window was a notice saying jobs were available. Out of curiosity I looked for these jobs online. There were 16, the most hours being offered were 16 hours per week, and 11 were under 10 hours per week.

So there may be vacancies, but are the jobs worth having? Could you live on the wages?

Many retail jobs only offer a few contracted hours but there is scope for lots of overtime. People who only earn low wages may still be able to claim Universal Credit . I know a lady who works as cabin crew but wasn’t too proud to take a waitressing job to top up her furlough pay.

Furlough had to have an end point-it was never going to go on forever!

The people i know that had been furlough the majority of them had already got new jobs (in some cases better) a friend who loved working in the hotel industry started a new job last year, a friend who was cabin crew now works in the doctor’s surgery. They couldn’t afford to stay on 80% for a length of time so have now used their skills in other ways to find new jobs. They were also bored!! Another friend demanded to be kept on furlough till after the summer holidays and promptly quit her job when they asked her to return.
Speaking to others like people have said they want FT hours but retail places only offering 16 hours. Promise of more but I guess that’s just for Christmas! They can’t take the risk to live on 16 hours!

My SIL has been turned down for every job she’s applied for and the ones that have given feedback have all said that they don’t want to take in cabin crew as they feel they’ll just have to recruit again when travel picks up.

It’s not as simple as just finding another job. While she was furloughed she wasn’t allowed to work elsewhere either.

You keep saying hgv driver, but there are so many other jobs open right now, from delivery driving and supermarkets to cybersecurity and social media.

You mentioned lorry driving but I this shortage is nothing new in that area.

Re the other part of your post and as pp has said many of these jobs are not f/t etc. Crucially people have moved into other industries eg hospitality, around 40% have moved into other areas.

Furlough actually meant a bit more than 80% in income. NI, income tax and pension contributions would be proportionally lower, and no travel costs.

I volunteer alongside paid staff who were furloughed when non essential retail was closed. That was their experience. Also working outside the home meant sometimes paying for lunches and having to replace clothes or shoes, all of which cost. In general, they weren’t any worse off and quite enjoyed the break!

The cabin crew on my Facebook all got other jobs working at the covid site they are back on planes now

For anyone insisting that furloughed/redundant staff simply just become a HGV driver, please actually read up on what that entails. It's not something you just decide to do and enter into on a whim.

I'll save you the trouble of googling, start here -
mobile.twitter.com/infofoundationx/status/1441738825575768069?s=19

Now explain to me how someone on reduced, or now possibly no wages will be able to enter the profession? Explain to me why people with previously favourable working conditions would want to trade that in for the shit show that being a HGV driver entails?

Yes furlough absolutely needs to end, but I have nothing but sympathy for people who were hoping to return to roles they loved, were qualified for, trained their entire lifetimes for.

Fruit and veg is rotting in British Filds because no one want to pick it.
When the prices go through the roof those unwilling to do the shit job short term will no it was nothing to do with them.
Social care is in crises, bed blocking in hospitals because there are no cares so cannot go home, but when hospitals can’t admit anymore, those unwilling to do a shit job will know it’s nothing to do with them.
The haulage industry in in crises, but when there is no food in the shops and the prices go through the roof, those unwilling to do a shit job will no it’s nothing to do with them.
It’s funny how the government should bail out people who have up to now been quit fortunate but those same people do not see them self’s as part of a wider community that has jobs that need doing now, even if they are shit.
Or maybe we should have a new underclass of humans, the scum of the earth maybe who can be tasked with the shit that the privileged don’t want to do.

At least 3 haulage companies near me are offering £1000 just to take the job, they are paying all trading cost, they are paying £15 an hour.
Things are changing.

They should utilise their skills another way until the travel industry picks up. However who knows, this could be years and there maybe permanent changes as much business is done over zoom now and will remain that way

@SaltySheepdog

They should utilise their skills another way until the travel industry picks up. However who knows, this could be years and there maybe permanent changes as much business is done over zoom now and will remain that way

With the US opening shortly to non citizens and announcements tha5 Australia may relax requirements at the end of the year there are signs it is picking up.

As for employees (particularly crew) utilizing their skills in another way..it’s a two edged sword for the employers….they have an interest in keeping people on the books and working to some extent because the costs and time required to retraining qualify crew whose clearances and tests have expired can be considerable.

@bebanjo

Fruit and veg is rotting in British Filds because no one want to pick it. When the prices go through the roof those unwilling to do the shit job short term will no it was nothing to do with them. Social care is in crises, bed blocking in hospitals because there are no cares so cannot go home, but when hospitals can’t admit anymore, those unwilling to do a shit job will know it’s nothing to do with them. The haulage industry in in crises, but when there is no food in the shops and the prices go through the roof, those unwilling to do a shit job will no it’s nothing to do with them. It’s funny how the government should bail out people who have up to now been quit fortunate but those same people do not see them self’s as part of a wider community that has jobs that need doing now, even if they are shit. Or maybe we should have a new underclass of humans, the scum of the earth maybe who can be tasked with the shit that the privileged don’t want to do.

Ah, but when fruit picking is suggested for benefits claimants we're told by the MN screaming hordes that it's demeaning, the hours don't fit in around childcare, it's not enough to live on.

When social care is suggested for benefits claimants the MN screaming horde tell us that we don't want unqualified people looking after our grannies. Nobody should be forced into social care because it will affect the quality of care.

So we can't expect people who actively choose a lifestyle of unemployment into these roles, but we can judge people who were working, expecting to go back into their roles, have worked their entire lives, contributed significant amounts of tax and NI and expect them to pick up these roles? (I'm aware those on benefits pay NI, but as it was never their money, they haven't actually paid it, the govt has just taken some of their own money back, and as benefits are generally lower than salary the contributions would be less than someone who is employed)

Furlough can't go on forever, but that doesn't mean we can't sympathise with people who have found themselves stuck on it in the anticipation of going back to their job.

Get a hospitality job to keep his hand in and keep looking for an opening in his field again

@justasking111

Get a hospitality job to keep his hand in and keep looking for an opening in his field again

In the case of the OP the situation was said to be:

Ex colleague on furlough since the start moaning that furlough ends and may lose job….

So they it appears are still hanging onto the flying job and if they’ve got any sense they’ll carry on hanging on as long as possible, right to the bitter end if it gets to that.

Reason is most/many airlines have a seniority based system for crew and voluntarily leaving now with a view to perhaps rejoining in the future at the bottom end of the scale wouldn’t be the smartest move…

OTOH Having a second job, if it’s permissible and fits in with any work the airline is still rostering, makes sense…

The bottom line is, if you are made redundant from your job, you have no income. (Furlough or no furlough) Naturally, you'd have to look for an other job in order to live.

But you can’t be both furloughed and made redundant at the same time.

Presumably many companies are holding out until the furlough scheme is finished before making people redundant. And naturally as an employee you’d hold out for that because there may be a redundancy package.

You’d be bonkers not to hold out for redundancy though.

You can be made redundant whilst you're on furlough. You get paid your usual notice period, it's up to the company if they want you to work during this period or remain on leave. Once your notice period ends you get your redundancy payout and final payslip

@TheKeatingFive that was meant to be a Rey to you, the quote didn't work!