following today's news...to say police should not be allowed to arrest women when operating solo

[RBKB]

Just that.... what tragic and terrifying news regarding Sarah Everard's murder. I am so angry as I gather the force minimised earlier reports of sexually deviant behaviour by this appalling man.

If they did have to work in pairs, and that was common knowledge, Sarah Everard might still be alive.

I don't think it would work. The main lesson to be learned from this case is to do with why an officer with such a reputation internally was allowed to continue serving. Never mind why he wasn't suspended pending investigation after that indecent exposure.

Look at this tragedy from another perspective. An off duty police officer sees a woman trying to abduct a child, goes to the child's aid, but is unable to arrest the woman because he's on his own. The next day the woman tries again and succeeds and the child is killed. Is that really what we want to risk?

how does that work in, say, a vigilante mob? Does the officer provide the mob with a sitting target whilst waiting for back-up
The government should be protecting an officer doing a job dealing with the most dangerous in society by doubling up crews.

If it means higher taxes or cuts to political parties wage packages.

Probably one of the worst money saving ideas.

Most people would take a bigger risk dealing with one officer if their pal was been arrested.

@x2boys

So your a, women on your own, and somebodys trying to break into your house, you ring the police and they only have a lone male officer to despatch, what are you going to do say no thanks?

Like fuck would the Met ever send a lone police officer out to an active burglary in progress. Way too risky. They don’t go about on their own.

www.rte.ie/news/2020/0617/1148139-garda-shooting/
A detective overpowered and shot with his own gun in a sleepy quiet county town if he was a city garda he couldn't patrol alone.

Look at this tragedy from another perspective. An off duty police officer sees a woman trying to abduct a child, goes to the child's aid, but is unable to arrest the woman because he's on his own. The next day the woman tries again and succeeds and the child is killed.
He could arrest her, cuff her, call for back up.
Why would he have to let her go the first time?

Police Scotland officers always work in pairs as corroboration is still required. So, as someone from north of the border, it’s an alien concept to me that officers down south can work alone.

We need to change the thinking within the male population. The instant you start saying “we can’t trust any men” you are going to get men coming out and saying things like “not all men are like that,” which is true. And instantly you lose support.

We need to get to the point where men don’t have to express that “not all men” are like that. We need to get to a point where those men who aren’t like that want something done about the men who are, and acknowledge the fact that male on female violence is more common than the other way around.

Given that men are more at risk of violent crime than women and still the "men that aren't like that" continue to be more interested in their personal reputation than their personal safety I think it's reasonable to say dick pandering makes no difference at all and we'd be waiting a long time for them to stop saying "not all men are like that".

@middleager

Have you seen what West Midlands Police have posted? Women are not responsible for what men do FFS!

Looking out for one's mates isn't just for women. It's good advice for a multitude of reasons, many of which apply to men too - some cities have seen far too many lone drunks drown in rivers.

@mathanxiety

I’m sorry, what freedoms are you willing to give up for safety. Because last I checked you can’t have it both ways. You are either protected and treated differently or treated the the same with risk.

Conundrum isn’t it?

I'm lucky enough to live in a place that funds its police, and police patrol in pairs or have backup to summon for immediate help, whether dealing with male or female offenders.

I do have to pay for the proper staffing of the police force through my taxes, but I don't see a problem there. I get what I pay for. Other people get what I pay for too. I care like that.

So you this doesn’t apply to you at all. Or you are deluded in the thought ta 2 men ca’t commit a violent act together or you live in a mythical place where the police force is split 50/50 between men and women.

So umm great if one of those above is the case. It isn’t for the rest of the world.

Again, the only real way that this might have been prevented would be for the police to start taking "minor" sexual offences seriously again. Indecent exposure is a gateway crime.

So to summarise from some of these comments: it would take too many resources/require the giving up of too many 'freedoms'/mean that women just want special treatment not equality/would hurt men's feelings too much, therefore there's no point in attempting to change anything. So if a lone male police officer attempts to arrest you, a woman, on the flimsiest of pretexts then your duty is to just submit in good faith.

Jeez the absolute state of some of the views on this thread. 🤬

Police officer here (not in the met).
I am beyond horrified at what happened to Sarah Everard and incredibly shamed that the man who murdered her was a serving officer paid to protect people like Sarah. I am angry for what he's done to Sarah and the damage he's heaped on public confidence in the police, particularly among women.

I would love police to be double crewed. It would lead to a lot better decision making IMO (chances of 2 officers making a bad decision much reduced). It would also reduce the number of steadily rising assaults on police officers. Not going to happen though. The area I police is staffed with 4x fewer officers than 20 years ago and we're failing to meet demand as it is. There's no money or political/public will to uplift numbers.

I also don't think it would help. My force, and most others, already have a policy that 2 officers have to transport to custody. 1 officer may attend and arrest but another will then be needed before anyone can leave the scene. This is because the driver can't monitor the prisoner (there have been cases where prisoners have died en route). Most members of the public don't know this even though it's been in place years.

Most people (and especially those with typical female socialisation and those who don't have previous interaction with the police to draw on) would just see the warrant card and capitulate. In a country where we police with consent, that's actually how it should be - with the caveat that the police absolutely must be acting with integrity and relied on to keep people safe. That wasn't the case here which is why it's so, so awful.

There will always be rare exceptions of incredibly clever sociopaths, but what's actually needed (and shouldn't be beyond the wit of forces to achieve) is a robust vetting process, regular, mandatory psychological assessments for officers (which doesn't currently happen but IMO should, which would not only pick up red flags but might also help with their decreasing mental health levels) and some accountability. We already have a Code of Ethics making those who had concerns about Couzens duty bound to report him. Whether they did, and what was done about it, remains to be seen but that's where the real questions about preventability lie in my view.

In the meantime an innocent young woman lost her life, for which I am truly sorry.

I hear you but female police officers are very few in number.

Maybe only women should be allowed to be police officers. 😁

Yes double crewed.
The terrifying thing is that any man could pretend to be police and do this to lure a woman into a car. At least if we knew there had to be two people we would have a heads up something was wrong if it was a lone ‘policeman’.

If you cared about women not being murdered, more important than extreme thing like what you suggest is more help and safe housing for victims of domestic violence.

Don't think most people care really about women cos several killed every week by violence but cos domestic violence people think we not important.

I hadn't really thought about it before, because I always see police in groups here, but I'm surprised it's normal for police to arrest on their own. I'd have thought operating in pairs was better, not just for our safety, but for theirs - gives them a credible witness and backup for if things go south.

If police can't afford to operate in pairs, then we must be seriously underfunding them. I know people are shouting about how the police are corrupt and we should cut off their funding, but actually, I think the solution might be to invest more in them.

In an ideal world, police would operate in pairs, and there would be a big push on gender/race equality, so more of those pairs weren't just two white men. In some parts of the UK, I can see how that just won't be possible, but it would be nice to aim for that. More diversity, and no to working solo where possible.

So you this doesn’t apply to you at all. Or you are deluded in the thought ta 2 men ca’t commit a violent act together or you live in a mythical place where the police force is split 50/50 between men and women.

No, it's not split 50-50, not even close, and there are parts of the country where policing is not the priority it is in my area; the problem of appropriate funding applies to me because I can and do travel.

Women have responded to the danger posed by harassment and physical attacks by taking precautions that frequently involve curtailing their lifestyles - staying in after dark, avoiding parks and other areas where they might be alone, not taking outdoor exercise at convenient times, and in general leading lives that are circumscribed by fear. Women's safety is not a priority in a country where police funding is decreasing. The right of half the population to personal safety is clearly not considered all that important. If you want policing then you have to pay the sort of taxes that result in adequately funded and staffed forces. If the will to properly fund the police isn't there, you have to ask why.

Now, with the death toll mounting, the inadequacies of policing are becoming more apparent, and maybe one good thing that will come from repeated preventable crimes is a commitment by the powers that be to protection. Women are constituents after all.

Yes, of course two men could get together and kidnap and murder women, but what usually happens when more than one man is involved is a heist of some sort. Rape and murder of the sort seen in the Everard case tends to be the work of lone wolves.

@BlueBellsArePretty, agree.

Haven't RTFT. The fact that police officers can arrest women alone is a red herring here.

This bastard would have found a way to do what he did regardless of what rules are designed to prevent it / make it more difficult.

People impersonate police officers. It just so happens that he was a real one. Realistically, how many of us would be able to spot a counterfeit warrant card? If he hadn't been a real copper he could have easily pretended to be one. If he didn't do that, he'd have found another way.

Unfortunately the million dollar question of how we tackle violence towards women still goes unanswered but I don't think it lies within sending two cops out to arrest women just in case.

If police can't afford to operate in pairs, then we must be seriously underfunding them. I know people are shouting about how the police are corrupt and we should cut off their funding, but actually, I think the solution might be to invest more in them

They’ve been underfunded for years like all of our public services.

Ridiculous question from the OP

They’ve been underfunded for years like all of our public services.
It is disgraceful risking the officers life and public safety.

@Kindleswitchface

Are domino's drivers also not allowed to deliver single crewed to females?

This sadly. Evil men who will kill are in all professions, doctors police delivery men gardeners etc. you can’t monitor every one in a genuinely god profession for one person. Just like shipman would have still passed the new doctor checks with revaluation and still killed. This isn’t a police are bad issue, it’s a fucking evil cunt was bad issue. I want the police to still come out if needed and there still to be a service although low everything it’s underfunded. But questions need to be hugely asked about why his flashing wasn’t taken seriously