following today's news...to say police should not be allowed to arrest women when operating solo

[RBKB]

Just that.... what tragic and terrifying news regarding Sarah Everard's murder. I am so angry as I gather the force minimised earlier reports of sexually deviant behaviour by this appalling man.

@Snoozysnoozy

*Apparently his nickname was ‘the rapist’ Why is the command chain also not answerable?*

Because it's not illegal to have a nickname
Because he hadn't broken any laws that anyone knew of
Because having a shitty nickname could be considered grounds for bullying

I think a big question here is what/how do the Police vet potential recruits to weed out men who see the position as an opportunity to gain power over both men and women.

There are clearly some personalities drawn to professions of power specifically to do this.

Secondly, what are the processes in place to investigate suspicions that a serving officer might be such a person.

What's the thread hold for such an investigation?

When an investigation is invoked is the offer immediately removed from duty and have their warrant card/uniform/cuffs etc removed from them?

There were clearly massive failings here. The fact that 2 allegations of indecent exposure were not investigated is appalling, especially as it's know to be an escalation crime.

Whilst it's true that a nickname isn't proof of character, in my experience such pejorative nicknames are rarely without foundation.

At school we had a teacher we called Creepo.

He never did anything that you felt able to call him out on/report him, but he was an uncomfortable person to be around.

Things like standing a fraction too close. Patting you on the back to say "well done" but touching you right were your bra strap was and his hand lingering that second longer than needed. Super subtle sexual innuendos that were rooted more in how he said something (leering tone or facial expression) rather than what he said - so if you told somebody they'd be bemused as to why there was an issue.

Lots of girls felt distinctly uncomfortable around him and we'd ensure we were never alone around him.

It did not surprise me at all that some years later I found out he'd been caught having inappropriate contact with a female pupil.

For a nickname like The Rapist to stick, there must have been many people who saw something deeply disturbing about this man even prior to the expose reports.

It should have been investigated/reported why this moniker stuck to him.

The Met have a lot to answer for here and we need not just a review and promise to do better, but tangible actions that err on the side of safeguarding rather than hurt feelings of an officer or protecting the force.

AND I would argue that at all arrests police officers must have a live radio conversation in the presence of the person being arrrested with the police station they are working for so when the "get in the car" happens the suspect knows where they are going.

I think this would be a good idea.

Unfortunately it’s not possible to always have police officers in pairs (although for their own safety I think they should be) so actually this would be a good idea all around without the need of taking up extra officers who could be needed somewhere else.

All suggestions are sensible, and all should be implemented. Body cams double crews, guilty until proven innocent suspensions in any sex or violence related crime commited by an officer...all of that should be done very very quickly, because this shit really undermines the police as an institution.

@DecadentlyDecisive putting a grin on this thread is vile, this has no place for laughter.

And also, you are totally wrong with your "he has not been charged"

@Snoozysnoozy

Because he hadn't broken any laws that anyone knew of

Except he had. He indecent exposes himself twice, that we know of.

One rogue officer doesn't make most cops bad guys
If only it was one.

And not forgetting his enablers.

And all the enablers of the others.

@TheOnlyMrsM

One rogue officer doesn't make most cops bad guys If only it was one.

And not forgetting his enablers.

And all the enablers of the others.

5.5k complaints to the IPCC about the Met police over a year, many of them related to sexual assault.

[quote Heronwatcher]@Offmyfence I think we’re saying it would certainly have made it much more difficult for him. In this case Sarah didn’t scream, try to get help or fight him off as she thought he was entitled to arrest her. If women knew they could only be arrested if 2 police persons were present then this would never happen, they would smell a rat and at least have a fighting chance. Unless you had 2 sociopath policemen on the same force who were prepared to team up, but surely that’s unlikely? I agree that there are some practical problems and there might be a different way to do it- maybe police could call the arrest into the station and the person being arrested have a right to verify it with a custody sergeant? Or maybe this should only apply to non violent offences where someone is not in immediate danger. But something should absolutely be done about this- it’s beyond horrific.[/quote]
I see what you're saying, but I do not believe that this would've stopped him murdering a woman. He was going to do it whatever. A small loophole like that would not have made him stop his depravity.

5.5k complaints to the IPCC about the Met police over a year, many of them related to sexual assault

Exactly.

This isn't one bad apple.

There is a systematic failure within the Met to identify predators prior to recruitment and appropriately investigate them when in service.

@MagnoliaXYZ

YABU.

I don't see how we can expect equal treatment as women but at the same time demand special treatment. I don't understand the fear a number of women seem to have of unknown men - women are more likely to be murdered by someone they know.

Who said we want equal treatment? Or did you mean equitable treatment?

I see what you're saying, but I do not believe that this would've stopped him murdering a woman. He was going to do it whatever. A small loophole like that would not have made him stop his depravity.

That's impossible to know.

His job gave him the tools to abduct her in plain sight. Would he have had the balls to do it otherwise?

Did his position mean he thought his lies wouldn't be challenged and that he had the skills to hide his crime?

Fundamentally, did his job contribute to a sense of invincibility that might have otherwise led him not to act as he did?

@MagnoliaXYZ

YABU.

I don't see how we can expect equal treatment as women but at the same time demand special treatment. I don't understand the fear a number of women seem to have of unknown men - women are more likely to be murdered by someone they know.

Equality doesn’t always mean treating people the same. Equality would be acknowledging that 93% of murderers are men and that women are vulnerable to men.

@Kindleswitchface

Are domino's drivers also not allowed to deliver single crewed to females?

How does dominoes deliver your pizza?

This is a man who had a family and a "normal" life. He never ever imagined they'd catch him.
That means he felt very well protected by his job, and that feeling of invincibility could easily push someone into committing this crime.
Any police officer who has been even accused of indecent exposure or domestic violence should be instantly suspended as far as I'm concerned.

Why is everyone saying he hadn't done anything- he had twice indecently exposed himself, including weeks, a month or so before he took Sara and once back in 2015 which was easily linked to him once they knew he was a suspect. These are crimes, and other people would have been taken in for them, prosecuted- he was not. Given his nickname was The Rapist, that's only the times we know about as on file, what else gave his colleagues cause to call him that, the mind boggles.

There needs to be a complete overhaul of how women are treated by the force, including in domestic violence cases, rape cases, absolutely everything, and having even a suspicion of a crime against women, even if a suspicion, that person should not be a serving police officer, let alone a firearms officer. That's what enhanced disclosure is for!

I see what you're saying, but I do not believe that this would've stopped him murdering a woman. He was going to do it whatever. A small loophole like that would not have made him stop his depravity.

But you can say this about virtually anything. ‘Oh well, shrug, he would have done it anyway. So nothing needs to change.

The DBS system wouldn’t have stopped Ian Huntley. It’s far from failsafe now. Shall we just let anyone work with vulnerable people without checks? After all, if someone’s determined to kill a child or vulnerable person, they’ll find a way. Handgun restrictions may not have prevented the Dunblane shootings. Shall we scrap handgun restrictions? After all, if someone’s determined to get hold of a handgun and murder someone else, they’ll find a way.

No one’s saying preventative or safeguarding measures are/would be failsafe. But the point of them is that they at least make it harder.

He planned this murder a few days before 3 March. He would have been aware that there were plans to start getting out of lockdown from 8 March. Lockdown gave him the opportunity to ‘arrest’ Sarah, so he would have wanted to do this before the UK returning to normality.

“Boris Johnson confirmed a review will take place on February 15, but said he will reveal "as much as we can" about the "roadmap" to reopen the UK, starting with schools on March 8.”

[quote Heronwatcher]@Offmyfence I think we’re saying it would certainly have made it much more difficult for him. In this case Sarah didn’t scream, try to get help or fight him off as she thought he was entitled to arrest her. If women knew they could only be arrested if 2 police persons were present then this would never happen, they would smell a rat and at least have a fighting chance. Unless you had 2 sociopath policemen on the same force who were prepared to team up, but surely that’s unlikely? I agree that there are some practical problems and there might be a different way to do it- maybe police could call the arrest into the station and the person being arrested have a right to verify it with a custody sergeant? Or maybe this should only apply to non violent offences where someone is not in immediate danger. But something should absolutely be done about this- it’s beyond horrific.[/quote]
Wasn’t it the Covid “laws” that duped her?
If it wasn’t for that the poor girl would’ve never doubted an arrest was wrong

@MagnoliaXYZ

YABU.

I don't see how we can expect equal treatment as women but at the same time demand special treatment. I don't understand the fear a number of women seem to have of unknown men - women are more likely to be murdered by someone they know.

Equal treatment in this case means the right not to be raped and murdered by a police officer.

Sadly, in this and many cases we need special treatment just to get an outcome which is equal to a man. (I.e. not getting raped and murdered when walking home along a busy main road.)

He was able to hide in plain sight and he wasn't really hiding, was he? Known to be abusing steroids and extreme pornography, nicknamed 'the rapist,' committing offences of indecent exposure, and so on and so on. He was enabled to hide in plain sight by his colleagues. He must have felt untouchable therefore as a serving police officer and that gave him the confidence to hire a car in his own name, to stop and 'arrest' Sarah openly on the street to kidnap her and to - ultimately - rape, murder and defile her body. In interview he seemed genuinely shocked that he had been caught. I think he believed firmly that he would get away with it. Just like he had always been allowed to get away with things.

RIP Sarah. Thinking of her loved ones. Sarah could be any one of us.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/dec/17/black-people-five-times-more-likely-to-be-subjected-to-police-force

Imagine being both black AND female! And the poor treatment barely gets any attention. Disgusting

@Kindleswitchface

Are domino's drivers also not allowed to deliver single crewed to females?

Slight difference between a police officer and their power of arrest and the dominos driver.

I work for the police. Dh is a policeman. Even I would think twice about engaging with a single crewed police officer now. The whole thing is just horrific and beyond comprehension. Unimaginable for her or her family. Horrible for all the decent officers out there who just want to help people who now will be viewed with suspicion by every woman out there.

WC has destroyed a family, presumably his own family (his poor wife must be beside herself) and has destroyed public confidence in the police. I can't think of a punishment bad enough to fit that. I hope he has a dreadful time in prison. And not in some vulnerable prisoner wing.

@Takemetothe90s I agree, in my first post I said that if politicians and police hadn’t mangled peoples’ understanding of the COVID laws then perhaps Sarah would have realised he didn’t have a right to shove her into a car. But I do think the bigger issue is abuse of power and a system where anyone arrested, particularly lone females at night doing nothing dangerous can’t somehow verify that their arrest is legitimate or even where they are going etc. The system is designed to suit police, not protect people, particularly women.

I don’t see how this could possibly work given that men are most likely to be the victims of violent crime committed by other men. What do we do, only have female officers arresting men? It’s just not viable.

@Helendee

I don’t see how this could possibly work given that men are most likely to be the victims of violent crime committed by other men. What do we do, only have female officers arresting men? It’s just not viable.

So the issue in fact is men? Agreed.