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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

following today's news...to say police should not be allowed to arrest women when operating solo

267 replies

RBKB · 29/09/2021 18:36

Just that.... what tragic and terrifying news regarding Sarah Everard's murder. I am so angry as I gather the force minimised earlier reports of sexually deviant behaviour by this appalling man.

OP posts:
Namechangeapologies · 29/09/2021 20:23

At the very least there needs to be a massive overhall of the police identification police must carry (ideally much more verifiable than some laminated card) so that a suspect can validly ask to see it at the point of arrest (someone suggested some kind of live app to show the police officer is in service and is actually on duty) - perhaps added to PACE.

AND I would argue that at all arrests police officers must have a live radio conversation in the presence of the person being arrrested with the police station they are working for so when the "get in the car" happens the suspect knows where they are going.

Offmyfence · 29/09/2021 20:27

@Namechangeapologies

At the very least there needs to be a massive overhall of the police identification police must carry (ideally much more verifiable than some laminated card) so that a suspect can validly ask to see it at the point of arrest (someone suggested some kind of live app to show the police officer is in service and is actually on duty) - perhaps added to PACE. AND I would argue that at all arrests police officers must have a live radio conversation in the presence of the person being arrrested with the police station they are working for so when the "get in the car" happens the suspect knows where they are going.
How would something more verifiable than a laminated card have helped, he was a serving police officer, that much we know is true. So how would it have helped if he had better ID? This was not someone posing as an officer.
NoviceNewMN · 29/09/2021 20:30

Haven't read the full thread but it used to be the case that police officers did not go on patrol alone - whether on the beat by foot or in a car - they were always in pairs.

Stretched resources means that doesn't happen anymore.

This is a two way safety issue - both for the police and the public - think of a lone police woman on patrol alone vs with a colleague. Same thing applies to the Sarah Everard case - if the two person patrol rule were in place you can't rule out it wouldn't still have happened, but if members of the public knew police didn't patrol alone, at least there would be some grounds to suspect things weren't right.

Unfortunately it is unrealistic to think mandatory two -man/woman patrols will ever be re-introduced. Cuts cuts and more cuts.

Heronwatcher · 29/09/2021 20:30

@Offmyfence I think we’re saying it would certainly have made it much more difficult for him. In this case Sarah didn’t scream, try to get help or fight him off as she thought he was entitled to arrest her. If women knew they could only be arrested if 2 police persons were present then this would never happen, they would smell a rat and at least have a fighting chance. Unless you had 2 sociopath policemen on the same force who were prepared to team up, but surely that’s unlikely? I agree that there are some practical problems and there might be a different way to do it- maybe police could call the arrest into the station and the person being arrested have a right to verify it with a custody sergeant? Or maybe this should only apply to non violent offences where someone is not in immediate danger. But something should absolutely be done about this- it’s beyond horrific.

TotheletterofthelawTHELETTER · 29/09/2021 20:31

Although he was a Police Officer he was not on duty at the time so this is irrelevant.

If it was somehow encoded in law and everyone knew that you couldn’t be arrested by a solo officer it still wouldn’t have saved Sarah. She could have stood there and resisted arrest as he was alone and because of the vile predator he was she would still have died. He was intent on killing and would have done so regardless.

PaleGreenGhost · 29/09/2021 20:33

Police, security guards, aid workers, doctors. All positions of power abused by the males that hold them. Maybe men in positions like this should be chaperoned?

Only half joking.

Thatsjustwhatithink · 29/09/2021 20:35

I thk all police officers should go through enhanced vetting, especially focused of male police officers. Check full social media, inter search history, relationship checks etc. Any hint of poor behaviour towards women and no badge. No one should be a police officer with any previous convictions. Zero tolerance for any misdemeanor in the force. And continued vetting throughout their career.

Original poster
RBKB · 29/09/2021 20:39

@Thatsjustwhatithink totally agree. There are so many brilliant police officers out there. But we cannot have the tiny minority that are dangerous..they have so much power.

OP posts:
YouMeandtheSpew · 29/09/2021 20:40

I’m sure police officers used to go on patrol in pairs. For their own safety as much as other people’s. So it doesn’t seem like an outlandish suggestion to me.

I know lots of people will say things like ‘XYZ wouldn’t have saved Sarah, if he was intent on killing he would have done it regardless.’ Maybe that’s true, but I don’t think it’s a reason to shrug and say ‘oh well’ - it could at least have been a bit harder for him. A male police officer is a man with a car and an extraordinary amount of power. Sarah would have been aware that resisting arrest and refusing to obey a direction from a police officer are criminal offences. As it turns out it was incredibly easy for him to abuse that power.

I think it’s lazy to dismiss Wayne Couzens as ‘one bad apple’ instead of thinking about what could have been done to prevent this vile crime and what could be done to prevent it happening again.

Sparklybanana · 29/09/2021 20:41

if you had to be arrested by two police as a woman - are you really going to resist arrest if its just one on the off-chance they're a murderer? If that's the case then definitely don't get married or move in with any man because statistically, your bedmate is more likely to rape and murder you than a policeman, or indeed any man.
She was unlucky and he shouldn't have been working but even if they'd sacked him earlier, there's every chance he would have still murdered someone.

rhowton · 29/09/2021 20:42

Woman make up a much lower percentage of people being arrested...

Original poster
RBKB · 29/09/2021 20:44

@PaleGreenGhost only the police can handcuff you and force you into a car in full view though...I am not a man hater but BOY am I sick of the threat of male violence hanging over me and my daughters. And this case is terrifying. Who can my girls trust, if not police? The MOST terrifying thing is enough police had concerns, to nickname him. People knew this guy was a problem. But nobody did anything, we assume...there needs to be more disclosure on that issue. And details of how the indecent exposure was hushed up.

OP posts:
DecadentlyDecisive · 29/09/2021 20:49

@Lockheart

You're obviously oblivious to the fact that Sabina Nessa was killed by a Dominos Driver then - which is the point that was being made....

Fuck me, has anyone told the courts? No need for a trial or investigation everyone, some randomer on MN has cracked a case less than 2 weeks old!

With all the money we'd save on cases maybe we could employ enough police officers to double crew all shifts.

Well, I'm now going to say the same about the Police Officer aren't I - you total plum Grin

He's not been convicted yet.....

DeeCeeCherry · 29/09/2021 20:51

I think if they're arresting a woman solo, it should be a requirement that they radio in to station beforehand.

In reality they won't, though. They can do as they like. Policemen are still men I dont see why they're to be trusted.

Women's safety can't even be discussed without repulsive whataboutery. Sarah Everard's killer is an officer of the law. He used his job as a police officer to falsely arrest her and then handcuff, rape and kill her.

The onus is on police chiefs to put methods in place to reassure women in terms of safety. Pigs might fly...

LidlMiddleLover · 29/09/2021 20:52

Most officers operate single crewed If this were not allowed the crime clear up would be even lower and people would moan even more One rogue officer doesn’t make most cops bad guys

XenoBitch · 29/09/2021 20:53

@Namechangeapologies

At the very least there needs to be a massive overhall of the police identification police must carry (ideally much more verifiable than some laminated card) so that a suspect can validly ask to see it at the point of arrest (someone suggested some kind of live app to show the police officer is in service and is actually on duty) - perhaps added to PACE. AND I would argue that at all arrests police officers must have a live radio conversation in the presence of the person being arrrested with the police station they are working for so when the "get in the car" happens the suspect knows where they are going.
Police officers can arrest people when off duty. They would not have a radio on them then, but can call it in on their phone, and call for back-up etc..
theThreeofWeevils · 29/09/2021 20:57

He's not been convicted yet
Yes he has, you muppet. This is the sentencing hearing.

YouMeandtheSpew · 29/09/2021 20:57

Well, I'm now going to say the same about the Police Officer aren't I - you total plum-

He's not been convicted yet.....

Err, yes he has. He pleaded guilty to all charges ages ago. This hearing is about sentencing, not whether he’s guilty or not.

Driftingblue · 29/09/2021 20:58

@Clocktopus

Are domino's drivers also not allowed to deliver single crewed to females?

Stupid comparison really. Dominoes don't tend to carry handcuffs and are not in a position of authority where they could force a woman into their car under the pretence of arresting them. They don't even stay at the door nowadays, they put the pizza on the doorstep and then retreat to their car.

Would you like to pay the extra taxes to fund the additional police officers required to ensure double crewed patrols? If yes, crack on

It doesn't have to be double crewed patrols. If a police officer has reasons to arrest a lone women then he detains her at the scene and radios for assistance, once they arrive then they remove her to custody. I also think lone women should have the right to request waiting at the scene for a second officer if their arresting officer is a lone male.

This is wise.

I’m sick and tired of women being placed in vulnerable positions with men. We need to acknowledge the very real statistical differences.

pelosi · 29/09/2021 21:05

Of course he has been convicted.

Once you plead guilty you are convicted of the offence.

ThistlyPerf · 29/09/2021 21:06

@Throckmorton

Fuck me the replies on here are depressing reading.
Aren’t they just.
MrsSkylerWhite · 29/09/2021 21:09

YABU because, obviously, the vast majority of male (or any) police officers are not rapists and murderers.

No idea what nationwide policy is but where we are police officers patrol in pairs.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/09/2021 21:10

Absolutely 💯
I genuinely didn't realise you can get arrested by a lone officer.
They're always in pairs.
The evidence on police body cameras before Sarah was found was chilling, he was a big man too, fucking sicko.

EmeraldShamrock · 29/09/2021 21:12

a police officer has reasons to arrest a lone women then he detains her at the scene and radios for assistance, once they arrive then they remove her to custody.
Perfect solution.