AIBU that the political left is hamstrung by it's obsession with purity of thought?

[Echobelly]

To be clear - I think intersectionality is vital, I think awareness of privilege and balances of power when talking about the needs of different people is massively important. These things have value.

But it also seems to me that one reason the Left is struggling against the populist Right is that this expectation that everyone who doesn't get everything about the things I mentioned above exactly 'right' the very first time they encounter them or every time they mention them in company is a total pariah, a 'bigot', is 'erasing' or 'silencing' another group with what they do or say etc. When they're trying to the right thing but have maybe got it wrong, they're basically treated link c*nts.

People are well intentioned, but not everyone has a degree in sociology or whatever and not everyone, especially if they haven't had a privileged education, has a nuanced understanding of every political and social issue. Often one encounters people who are quick to label anyone who they see as less left-wing than them as 'fascist' (I was called this for discussing exactly the issue I am raising here on a LW group, though TBF, the guy was a bit of a out-there weirdo and was called out by lots of other people for saying it!)

I imagine one doesn't often see people chucked out of right wing groups for being 'not right wing enough' or 'not intersectional'. These groups, while lacking in self-awareness usually, are at least welcoming to all parties that want to join on the whole and won't chuck them out for 'saying the wrong thing'. Basically, it's easy to be part of the Right. It's hard to be part of the Left.

And that in part is because there is more self-awareness and care about it on the Left and that is valuable, but God, can't people sometimes cut people a bit of a slack?! It just seems that the Left spends its time tearing itself apart to prove who is the most pure and virtuous, and while it does this RW is making all sorts of gains in the popular consciousness and screwing up the world.

My issue is that for me, being left wing is about society and looking after one another. The current left wing just endlessly pontificating on subtle definitions that average voters don't give a shit about. It's a stupid trap of their own making. What ever happened to looking out for the low paid and vulnerable?

I agree with what you’ve written. It’s important to be aware of privileges and lack of, totally agree, but at the moment it comes across from the more left wing parties as almost an obsession that is more important than issues such as people going hungry in a rich nation, the housing crisis, healthcare provision, the climate crisis… it’s madness.

I agree, it's no conindence that a right wing party stays in power when (bar a brief breakaway to UKIP) the right have one big umbrella party in the conservatives.
Meanwhile there are half a dozen parties on the left scattered from central to extreme plus various nationalist leftists -- all of who are too occupied with fighting among themselves and too unwilling tolerate views slightly outside of their individual version of the one correct way to find the compromises needed to enact positive change or have a chance at foruming a government.

And I say this as somebody with fairly left leaning views.

It’s almost like displacement activity or procrastination for Labour, the Green Party and Lib Dems. That feeling when you know you have to write that tricky report (e.g prepare the UK to tackle climate change, or sort out NHS healthcare), and suddenly there is an urgent need for you to walk the dog or clean the oven (play around with identity politics).

There’s also arrogance, which does not allow them to set aside their differences to work together and bring a credible and electable alternative to the tories.

Yes, agree with everything so far

Those who occupy what used to be the left no longer value much of the traditional progressive left values. That is the main issue as far as I can see it. Solidarity, community and class have been taken over by identitarianism and regressive ideologies.

Their other problem is this purity means they simply can’t see that voters are politically complex. Conservative (small c) on some issues and progressive on other issues. Meaning voters are fickle and these days far less tribal.

The Conservatives (big c) are far more willing to compromise orthodoxy and principles to win elections.

And of course it's all virtue signalling. If they get in power they will be self serving like all politicians are. It's all hot air.

An obsession with talking about the precise language we use around disadvantage basically detracts from the work of, you know, actually helping vulnerable people and fighting this grotesque government,

I always find it interesting that the right wing is more able to be a broad church and tolerate differences and diversity, and is held up to be a hotbed of intolerance, whilst the left wing is completely incapable of doing so.

Look at Brexit - even hardcore remainer Tories are still Tories, and the party is still functioning.

I mean, I guess any movement is welcoming as long as you are in agreement with them. Contrary to popular belief, most local Tory party groups (in cities at least) are delighted to have BAME or LGBTQ members, but likely with the proviso that they take the line that other people like them 'bang on about discrimination too much' and they've never had a problem, because then that backs up their view.

I feel somewhere we do need language that differentiates between 'bigotry' and either 'not getting it' or fudging at attept to balance up a complex argument. And I know people say 'Don't tone police' and that people do have the right to be angry about totally unintentionally prejudiced or stereotyping behaviour, because obviously it has an impact. But on the Left that is this habit of treating anyone who hasn't swallowed a dictionary of social justice terminology as if they're in the EDL because they haven't got something quite right.

Isn't there some commentary from a women's group in Deptford or somewhere about running small scale projects for poor/socially excluded/abused women, mostly women of colour, which were all extremely practical (food to eat, safe place to sleep wtc) and then having students from a local university (mostly white middle class men IIRC) come and lecture them on the language they were using while doing it?

No intention of rolling their sleeves up and actually doing anything. Just purity policing

I always find it interesting that the right wing is more able to be a broad church and tolerate differences and diversity

That would be the right wing who gave us Brexit, is sending migrants back across the channel, and cutting benefits and services for disabled people, telling them it will help them be more independent? The one where half of the party members votes against same sex marriage. That’s the “broad church that tolerates differences and diversity, is it?”

But on the Left that is this habit of treating anyone who hasn't swallowed a dictionary of social justice terminology as if they're in the EDL because they haven't got something quite right.

And on the right there is a habit of accusing anyone who wants to make a bit of an effort with language or any other issue around inclusion as being “woke”

I think the Left have always had this problem. They're just not pragmatic enough.

The British left always starts to eat itself when out of power for too long. It makes them feel better about the inability to affect the direction of the country - at least they have the illusion of being in charge of something. Even if that something is just words.

Absolutely OP. And I agree with the PP’s point that all this purity monitoring is just frantic displacement activity for getting up off their arses, gaining power and doing some good.

What thought? I don’t see much evidence of thinking going on from any of them. Hasn’t one of them just said that anyone can grow a cervix with hormones and surgery?

Purity of stupidity, more like.

I agree that this lot do not strike me as the brightest

If only Labour / Libs / Greens could get together and form one centre left wing party. They could stand a chance at power.

Everyone benefits from a decent opposition party too.

Yanbu. It’s a big problem. There’s a worrying amount of extremists around in UK at the moment. Extremists demand that you agree with them or be treated like an enemy who must be attacked.

You might be interested in this story of a knitting circle that tried to promote diversity and descended into hate then fell apart…

unherd.com/2020/01/cast-out-how-knitting-fell-into-a-purity-spiral/

Labour can’t even define what a woman is. Nor can the Lib Dems.
Labour want to abolish women’s rights to single sex sports, changing rooms, refuges, hospital wards and prisons.
Women make up 51% of voters. Labour will never get elected until they stop throwing women under the bus to appease a tiny minority of aggressive transgender rights activists.

@Skysblue - yes I saw that post about the knitting circle a year or so ago, it's where I first heard the expression 'purity spirals', which I think is perfect.

@BoredZelda - you are absolutely right that the equivalent on the right would be to be sneered as at 'woke' but that still doesn't come with the degree of excoriation that seems to happen on the Left to someone who makes a mild error.

The left is struggling because the electorate thought it’s manifesto was dire.

It needs to stop telling the electorate “no, you’re wrong”, listen to what it’s being told and adapt accordingly.

Of course, it won’t.

It needs to stop telling the electorate “no, you’re wrong”, listen to what it’s being told and adapt accordingly.

Exactly

But that’s what a smart party who wanted power would do.

They aren’t that