AIBU that the political left is hamstrung by it's obsession with purity of thought?

[Echobelly]

To be clear - I think intersectionality is vital, I think awareness of privilege and balances of power when talking about the needs of different people is massively important. These things have value.

But it also seems to me that one reason the Left is struggling against the populist Right is that this expectation that everyone who doesn't get everything about the things I mentioned above exactly 'right' the very first time they encounter them or every time they mention them in company is a total pariah, a 'bigot', is 'erasing' or 'silencing' another group with what they do or say etc. When they're trying to the right thing but have maybe got it wrong, they're basically treated link c*nts.

People are well intentioned, but not everyone has a degree in sociology or whatever and not everyone, especially if they haven't had a privileged education, has a nuanced understanding of every political and social issue. Often one encounters people who are quick to label anyone who they see as less left-wing than them as 'fascist' (I was called this for discussing exactly the issue I am raising here on a LW group, though TBF, the guy was a bit of a out-there weirdo and was called out by lots of other people for saying it!)

I imagine one doesn't often see people chucked out of right wing groups for being 'not right wing enough' or 'not intersectional'. These groups, while lacking in self-awareness usually, are at least welcoming to all parties that want to join on the whole and won't chuck them out for 'saying the wrong thing'. Basically, it's easy to be part of the Right. It's hard to be part of the Left.

And that in part is because there is more self-awareness and care about it on the Left and that is valuable, but God, can't people sometimes cut people a bit of a slack?! It just seems that the Left spends its time tearing itself apart to prove who is the most pure and virtuous, and while it does this RW is making all sorts of gains in the popular consciousness and screwing up the world.

Well I imagine most people recognise the definition of the working class as those who have nothing to sell but their labour, and people could probably argue for days about what defines the classes but I think you can use income as a (broadly) defining factor, so working class - households have to rely on benefits to survive, middle class - households which do not have to rely on benefits to make ends meet each month (generally anyone with household income of 26k +)

What are other people’s definitions? (No stereotypes though please !)

I’m on a FB “makers” group. One lady makes cloth san pro-she used the word woman and was told to change the language to menstruating people and she did so, whilst of course being kind and subservient as women are expected to be.
You know these correctors are going to be left-voters and it’s a tiny tiny example but that’s what they’re all about. Policing our thoughts.
Doesn’t matter what you DO, provided you are SEEN to be correct

YABU OP

History has proven that the Left has never been a viable option

The Berlin Wall fell in 1989. Try visiting the very few Communist countries still standing and see whether you would enjoy living there (as a standard citizen, not as a tourist)

The middle classes and income generators are fed up being bled dry to subsidise the expenses of those who self- identify as more deserving or in need in order to 'level the playing field'. They are also tired of being insulted and told they are 'part of the problem' when all they do is work 24/7.

Identity politics, cancel culture, language purism and constant dictionary manipulation to suit agendas are additional layers of inanity which contribute to the Left being suppressed

I hope it's clearer in your head now

I'd disagree @mustlovegin - my mum grew up in a communist country, which exiled her for 21 years for taking part in a political protest, so I know very well what life was like under communism. I find any comparison of our very mildly left of centre to that pretty ludicrous - 'The Left' has not meant anything like communism for a very long time, not even under Corbyn. It's possible to be left of this current government without remotely approaching that extreme.

I know very well what life was like under communism

You should try and experience it for yourself and not rely on what your mum or others tell you. Those who have had real exposure to it would rarely advocate for the Left (soft or hard)

@Echobelly

I'd disagree *@mustlovegin* - my mum grew up in a communist country, which exiled her for 21 years for taking part in a political protest, so I know very well what life was like under communism. I find any comparison of our very mildly left of centre to that pretty ludicrous - 'The Left' has not meant anything like communism for a very long time, not even under Corbyn. It's possible to be left of this current government without remotely approaching that extreme.

Everyone’s a socialist. Until they can’t get an iPhone.

I'm not particularly a socialist but then neither is the Labour Party. I shouldn't rely on what my mum tells me?! I don't have to, I've been to the tiny, cockroach infested flat she grew up in and seen the minute space her sister brought up 4 children in which is why I can tell you that there is no correlation between Eastern Bloc communism and even Labour at its most leftist in the last few decades. I don't quite see how that will emerge from possibly taxing people who can afford it a bit more, which I'm not sure Labour are even proposing, partially because they're scared to moot it as people who wouldn't know oppression if it bit them on the bum are insisting that a maybe slightly more equal society = communism.

The Labour Party only adopted its socialist mantle in 1918 with the commitment to Clause 4. This was dropped 20 years ago by the party and symbolised a break from socialism.

But nationalisation was back on the agenda under Corbyn and Macdonald and was a primary election pledge. It’s been dropped by Stamer.

I don’t think there is any great appetite for socialism as a political orthodoxy in the UK. Which is not to say that governments, blue and red, haven’t adopted socialist type policies when needed or popular.

If the Uk hasn’t voted for full on socialism since 1945 /1970’s there’s probably a learning opportunity for the left in that fact.