To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

Municipal Dreams The Rise and Fall of Council Housing by John Boughton would educate some of you.

@MercyBooth

Municipal Dreams The Rise and Fall of Council Housing by John Boughton would educate some of you.

Yep.

Not that it matters now, but social housing was not originally necessarily intended just to be for poor people. It was meant to ensure good-quality housing and assured tenancies while taking out the element of profit. That's why you aren't chucked out of your council house if you start making a better wage- even if you can afford higher rent.

Yes it's shit that there are houses worth millions sitting empty
I agree they can't just be taken. We can have really punitive taxes on empty/second homes.

I remember the big houses on Bishops Avenue were all squatted and each had thirty people living there. I've heard they'll all empty now, owners don't live there, but they have private security teams patrolling to make sure nobody ever lives there.

I live in a town in a SE county.
London boroughs have been snapping up the new builds and moving their tenants out.

It's causing shortages for locals and altering communities.

The properties left behind are being snapped up don't developers and flogged off/rented out for much larger sums of money.

I wish someone could look at this situation. It's getting out of control.

Hmmmm, can never quite drum up sympathy for the moving away from support network argument. Both me and DH had to do that because that's where the work was, and we couldn't afford to live near my parents by a long shot. I've never viewed that as a right really. Not to say I don't think there's not enough social housing and the situation in this country is dire for those on the lowest wages I absolutely do think that. But moving to afford a better life, even if that means to a place where you know nobody, not in itself the main issue here I don't think. But definitely we need more and better social housing, don't get me wrong here!

@DroopyClematis

I live in a town in a SE county. London boroughs have been snapping up the new builds and moving their tenants out.

It's causing shortages for locals and altering communities.

The properties left behind are being snapped up don't developers and flogged off/rented out for much larger sums of money.

I wish someone could look at this situation. It's getting out of control.

This is the knock on isn’t it and what’s happened in my area.

Where do these locals go when priced out?
You go somewhere cheaper, the same happens there and it goes on and on.

@ADreadedSunnyDay

And yes, there should be action taken to stop foreign investors buying up properties, people should have to show UK residency and there should be heavy penalties for those owning empty homes, especially the ones that are allowed to go to ruin

Yes, flats are being built left, right and centre but there should be priority for people in the UK not overseas investors.

If they are really marching about the changes to the list, they are foolish. It makes zero sense to put people on a list there is no hope they ever will get to the top of. It's not a solution.

What they need to do is draw attention to the more basic problem, lack of suitable housing.

@Kendodd

Yes it's shit that there are houses worth millions sitting empty I agree they can't just be taken. We can have really punitive taxes on empty/second homes.

I remember the big houses on Bishops Avenue were all squatted and each had thirty people living there. I've heard they'll all empty now, owners don't live there, but they have private security teams patrolling to make sure nobody ever lives there.

Unless things have changed they were mostly owned by oil sheiks, they’d each own a few houses for each wife and would only spend a few weeks / months a year here.

Yanbu, it's not just a London thing.

@Hamster1111
Even private renting is hard. You have to find a landlord willing to take on children and pets if you have them. You need to prove your income and your affordability by producing bank statements. If you claim any benefits you could be ruled out.
That’s before you’ve gone up against the x amount of others looking in the area.

I live where I can afford and had to move to an area could afford, but didn't want to live in .
Been on SH list shouldn't be a golden ticket to stay where you prefer .They can only offer what's available .

This is really hard - on one hand, I would hate to see London become only for the rich, and understand why people want to stay where they have support. On the other hand, when I moved back to the UK after 10 years abroad I could not afford to move back to London, which is where I have most of my support system as the London weighting I was offered did not cover the higher costs of living there and I would not have been able to afford to buy. So I guess I might wonder why social tenants should get preferential treatment over those who buy their own homes. On the other hand, why should they be shipped out?

This is cruel because no part of the criteria will be weighted towards people who have family or a support network in the area, so endless crisis situations which may occur for famiies who could actually move away without losing support networks will get to stay on the list while those who have never known anywhere else & would struggle will be moved away.

Of course, the best chances for promotion, training, great careers etc in the country... won't be getting rehoused 100 miles away so the more local people in housing need will be moved away from all that too.
Where I live now, my oldest son (who is doing very well in life & buying a new house so not in social housing) had to move to London after he finished his education to get the career he wanted because down here the only jobs he could apply for were hotel trainee night porter, care worker or factory worker.
Nothing wrong with those jobs, but if he'd stayed to do those he'd need social housing.
When my youngest son leaves education, that is where he will end up too in order to have a decent chance at life.
Sadly, London is where the jobs are.

Very cruel.

If she doesn't accept whats offered they will discharge the homeless duty and turf her out if the TA.she needs to accept it then try and house swap back into London.
She is at high risk of ending up with no accommodation at all.

My sympathy is with the people who need housing

@AnneLovesGilbert

This sort of cleansing has been going on for years in London, moving the poor out of area. Only the rich are welcome.

What’s the answer?

Government to build more social housing, stock incredibly depleted. A Conservative govt will not though as against their ideology.

I hate all these people who moan and grumble and The System isn’t supporting them enough. We own a house but are moving 80 miles away because a house of the size and calibre in our present city would be about another £150k. Sometimes, you just have to cut your cloth and it’s the same whether you own or rent.

@EvilPea

It is shit not having that autonomy. People have always not been able to afford certain areas so you’d move to the next town, you’d be a bus ride from your family or short car journey and that would be fine. Now your talking of hours. That’s potentially your free flexible childcare gone. Or you popping in on your aging parents and supporting them gone (so an increase in social care cost).

I privately rent and have never got involved with community stuff as I don’t know how long we can stay in this area.

What does happen when your then priced out of the cheaper area?
What happens to the local residents in the cheaper area as rents rise there?

I don’t know what the answer is. It is realistic, but it’s also shit.

Yes, this is a bigger problem that goes back to the mobile workforce. The mobile workforce is mainly a benefit to big business owners as they can move labour around where it's easiest and cheapest.

Overall it's not great for communities and the people in them. While they can absorb some movement, when there is too much the support networks that could take in newcomers start to fail altogether.

This entails a need for additional support in families, especially where there are two workers. And that support either has to be paid for by the workers - which means salaries need to reflect that. Or, it means they have to be paid for by the state, through taxes - this is very much the preference of business of course, it's like a subsidy for their wages.

Every time families need to move away from support systems there are costs in terms of things like eldercare, youth programming, etc.

We're pretty well committed to the mobile workforce now, but when people have to move so far their support system is gone just to afford housing, when they are still in the same jobs it's just stupid. It also means the state paying for more infrastructure like public transport and roads, pollution mitigation, etc.

@Sciurus83 I agree. I've had to move several times to where the work is, not always necessarily places I would have chosen to live otherwise. It's like when people complain that they can't buy a house in the exact neighbourhood where they grew up. It isn't a god-given right, and neither is living near your support network, although obviously it's nice if you're able to.

I also don't get the hysteria about "social cleansing". This just isn't a thing in the UK. You either can afford to live somewhere, or you can't. No one is being forced to move out of London, they're merely being 0FFERED social housing elsewhere...because that's where there's housing available. They don't have to take it, they can make their own arrangements to rent privately. If they can't afford that then they have to move to a cheaper area that they CAN afford. That's just life, it's what everyone renting privately or buying their own home has to do.

DH has been in the military for all my married life so I’ve never lived near a family support network and it’s utterly shit. My kids have never known what it’s like to call in to their grandparents’ or cousins’ houses after school or on a weekend. I’ve never called in on my mum for a chinwag ‘just because’. A lot of my old school friends are still really friendly with each other, but I’ve not been in that group for 29 years and it makes me feel a bit envious at times. Yes I’ve got friends from postings but it’s not the same.

We’re just about to move again because DH is retiring from the military and has a new job that isn’t really commutable from where we are. I don’t want to go. It’s great when you’re moving for work and you have a job to be in all day, it’s not so great when you don’t or can’t work. A support network isn’t just friends and family either. I’m chronically sick. I’ve got a wonderful relationship with my GP and my hospital consultants who know me and my conditions well. So I don’t blame the school mum for not wanting to move.

It’s all well and good moving people who need social housing out of London but what will happen when there’s vacancies to be filled in the traditionally lower paid jobs and everyone has gone because they couldn’t afford to stay?

@Snugglepumpkin

This is cruel because no part of the criteria will be weighted towards people who have family or a support network in the area, so endless crisis situations which may occur for famiies who could actually move away without losing support networks will get to stay on the list while those who have never known anywhere else & would struggle will be moved away.

Of course, the best chances for promotion, training, great careers etc in the country... won't be getting rehoused 100 miles away so the more local people in housing need will be moved away from all that too.
Where I live now, my oldest son (who is doing very well in life & buying a new house so not in social housing) had to move to London after he finished his education to get the career he wanted because down here the only jobs he could apply for were hotel trainee night porter, care worker or factory worker.
Nothing wrong with those jobs, but if he'd stayed to do those he'd need social housing.
When my youngest son leaves education, that is where he will end up too in order to have a decent chance at life.
Sadly, London is where the jobs are.

Very cruel.

Yes, very cruel to give people subsidized/free housing.

[quote AngelDelight28]@Sciurus83 I agree. I've had to move several times to where the work is, not always necessarily places I would have chosen to live otherwise. It's like when people complain that they can't buy a house in the exact neighbourhood where they grew up. It isn't a god-given right, and neither is living near your support network, although obviously it's nice if you're able to.

I also don't get the hysteria about "social cleansing". This just isn't a thing in the UK. You either can afford to live somewhere, or you can't. No one is being forced to move out of London, they're merely being 0FFERED social housing elsewhere...because that's where there's housing available. They don't have to take it, they can make their own arrangements to rent privately. If they can't afford that then they have to move to a cheaper area that they CAN afford. That's just life, it's what everyone renting privately or buying their own home has to do. [/quote]
Yep, neither of my dds live nearby

I miss my dgd.

I live near dm though which is nice

@TheFairyCaravan

DH has been in the military for all my married life so I’ve never lived near a family support network and it’s utterly shit. My kids have never known what it’s like to call in to their grandparents’ or cousins’ houses after school or on a weekend. I’ve never called in on my mum for a chinwag ‘just because’. A lot of my old school friends are still really friendly with each other, but I’ve not been in that group for 29 years and it makes me feel a bit envious at times. Yes I’ve got friends from postings but it’s not the same.

We’re just about to move again because DH is retiring from the military and has a new job that isn’t really commutable from where we are. I don’t want to go. It’s great when you’re moving for work and you have a job to be in all day, it’s not so great when you don’t or can’t work. A support network isn’t just friends and family either. I’m chronically sick. I’ve got a wonderful relationship with my GP and my hospital consultants who know me and my conditions well. So I don’t blame the school mum for not wanting to move.

It’s all well and good moving people who need social housing out of London but what will happen when there’s vacancies to be filled in the traditionally lower paid jobs and everyone has gone because they couldn’t afford to stay?

It’s not a leap of imagination to expect that wages would up for those jobs which are low paid today.