To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

I just found out that there are three council houses on my street of 4-5 bedroom terraces- which is great, I think that council housing should be mixed in with non-council housing. The issue is, however, that each of these 4-5 bedroom houses are occupied by single women who had families that have now grown up and moved out. I don't know any of these women to speak to, for all I know they've been on waiting lists for years to trade for smaller houses (though I doubt it). In any case, there are about ten excess bedrooms just on one street that not being used by people who desperately need them because these women can't or won't move to more suitably-sized homes.

I wouldn't count social housing as a public service. It's not accessible to all like the NHS, Police and so forth.

You can't just ring the council and say , give me a house like it's an ambulance.

It's a means tested resources, the "means" being your need. Are you street homeless, has your house been flooded or burnt down and it wasn't your fault? Are you fleeing DV with small children?

It's a benefit of our society not a public service.

I would even say that private renters/buyers often can’t afford to stay in Central London even if they grew up there and/or have their support network there, kid’s schools etc. No march for them…

Well why don't they organise one?
Why do people put up with this shit and do nothing about it?

If London did suddenly create 100,000 extra social housing properties they would have to start accepting more people with priority need from other areas, not handing them out to less vulnerable people.

She doesn't have to move 100 miles away. She could move a fraction of those miles and private rent. They're not stopping housing benefit, just injecting some realism into the situation. It's pointless being on a list that you'll never get to the top of.

@ftw163532

However, I do think a dose of realism is needed.

Well, I think you need to have higher standards and expectations of our society and its public services.

Attitudes like yours are why this situation has happened.

So what’s your answer, other than abstract romanticism? House everyone who wants to live in London on a subsidized basis?

There are enough empty properties in London to house all those on the waiting list but they are owned by foreign investors who are just sitting on them.

If its OK to completely destroy poor people's lives why can't they just use all these empty flats - yes the investors will lose money and some will have their lives ruined but shouldn't the pain of our totally botched housing policy be spread more fairly.

The real issue is that some people's weĺlbeing is totally protected at the expense of many many others.

Of course, what removing vast swathes from the waiting list also does is hides from view the number of people who want/need social housing.

If the waiting list size is limited, you will never will able to see the demand problem fully.

Empty office blocks offer a huge opportunity. But will need more tax.

I agree with you OP. Difficult decisions have to be made in the public sector everyday and in the land of unicorns and rainbows there would be no need to prioritise our limited resources for those fleeing DV etc etc

@Eastie77Returns - so where is the school mum currently living?

And yes, there should be action taken to stop foreign investors buying up properties, people should have to show UK residency and there should be heavy penalties for those owning empty homes, especially the ones that are allowed to go to ruin

@RealBecca

Empty office blocks offer a huge opportunity. But will need more tax.

They're also often complete unsuitable for converting into homes.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/sep/27/housing-crisis-planning-converting-office-blocks-homes-catastrophe-jenrick

^ and a health risk...
www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/01/converted-offices-pose-deadly-risk-in-heatwaves-experts-warn

@sst1234

The friend who is marching should understand that people who don’t qualify for social housing have to make choices and leave their network to move out of London everyday. Wonder what her reasoning is for thinking that she shouldn’t have to do the same.

Yeah. I agree with this.

It's social Housing.

We all have our own priorities. Support network can't always at the top. If roof over your head is your first concern - you'll build your support network once that's sorted.

It is shit not having that autonomy.
People have always not been able to afford certain areas so you’d move to the next town, you’d be a bus ride from your family or short car journey and that would be fine.
Now your talking of hours.
That’s potentially your free flexible childcare gone.
Or you popping in on your aging parents and supporting them gone (so an increase in social care cost).

I privately rent and have never got involved with community stuff as I don’t know how long we can stay in this area.

What does happen when your then priced out of the cheaper area?
What happens to the local residents in the cheaper area as rents rise there?

I don’t know what the answer is. It is realistic, but it’s also shit.

And yes, there should be action taken to stop foreign investors buying up properties, people should have to show UK residency and there should be heavy penalties for those owning empty homes, especially the ones that are allowed to go to ruin

Johnson didn't want to place any restriction on this apparently and has said that without the 'buy to sit empty' foreign owners the blocks would never have been built.

It’s completely unrealistic to expect that everyone who applies for social housing in London will get it.

@Upamountain43

There are enough empty properties in London to house all those on the waiting list but they are owned by foreign investors who are just sitting on them.

If its OK to completely destroy poor people's lives why can't they just use all these empty flats - yes the investors will lose money and some will have their lives ruined but shouldn't the pain of our totally botched housing policy be spread more fairly.

The real issue is that some people's weĺlbeing is totally protected at the expense of many many others.

Unlikely this would work. Yes it's shit that there are houses worth millions sitting empty but I don't think we should go down the route of forcibly removing property people have legitimately bought. In any case I'd guess that the owners of these properties would soon find "family members" or similar to occupy their homes so that they were no longer empty.

I also think it's incorrect to blame this all on foreign investoers. Residents on one of the council estates in our borough have been campaigning for years to stop the council from building new homes on their estate. They are enraged at the prospect of less green space and the view from their homes being blocked by another tower.

All legitimate concerns but there is only so much space in London to build affordable homes and social housing. So these existing council house residents are effectively stopping other people in need from being housed. I understand why but again, what is the solution?

@Eviebeans

I think atm if it is deemed that you could pay the type of rent asked by a private landlord that is where you are directed

Is that not always the case? If you can afford rent, why do you need social housing?

It’s a shit situation everywhere (I work for a local council in housing allocations)
Unfortunately there’s an amount of people who seem to think we can just ‘magic’ properties out of our arses for them and are surprised when we don’t!

I’m having kind of an opposite problem to the OP actually, I’ve got a few (nice, big) 3 bed houses in rural areas (villages out of the main town) and I can’t get rid of them - they’ve been sat ready and waiting for months! No one bloody wants them because they’re ‘too far away’ (about 10 minute drive from town) and it makes me mad because they’re lovely houses - bigger than normal Council owned with massive gardens! Seems like everywhere’s in a pickle of some sort with social housing 🙄🤦🏻‍♀️

[quote Muchmorethan]@Eastie77Returns - so where is the school mum currently living?[/quote]
She is in temporary housing with her children.

She was offered a property a while back on a notorious estate in the area and turned it down. I don't blame her at all, I would not live there.

The council have now offered another property as part of some kind of 'resettlement' scheme in another town and she is refusing to leave.
I'm not sure if that would make her voluntarily homeless.

Most people don't move away from their support network though. Everyone I can think of has local family. This is in the SE.
One young woman I do know was moved to another town for housing away from her friends and family, she is utterly miserable and wants to get back but can't do it.

@Kendodd

I would even say that private renters/buyers often can’t afford to stay in Central London even if they grew up there and/or have their support network there, kid’s schools etc. No march for them…

Well why don't they organise one?
Why do people put up with this shit and do nothing about it?

Because this is how a free economy works? You get what you can afford.

I mean, if most people couldn’t find housing at all and were to sleep rough, yes I would expect marches, riots even. Here the issue is that they can’t have housing exactly where they want it.

To use another example, food. If people were starving or malnourished I would expect the govt to regulate prices. If people were unhappy because they couldn’t afford to shop at Waitrose, well…

@Upamountain43

There are enough empty properties in London to house all those on the waiting list but they are owned by foreign investors who are just sitting on them.

If its OK to completely destroy poor people's lives why can't they just use all these empty flats - yes the investors will lose money and some will have their lives ruined but shouldn't the pain of our totally botched housing policy be spread more fairly.

The real issue is that some people's weĺlbeing is totally protected at the expense of many many others.

When I was a student a huge number of 3 bed flats - ordinary ones in good parts of the city were owned by foreign investors. They should be banned from buying property below a certain value IMO.Or the gov should buy these back and convert to social housing.