To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

@Ozanj

The London social housing shortage is t going to be solved by a £10k/month new build flats being put up for rent

Unfortunately there is a fundamental incompatibility between council houses for life, and new people needing to be housed

There either needs to 5/10 year reviews of council tenancies, or we have to accept that there will only be 500 houses a year coming up and therefore only the very very highest need families will get housed

And yes, more houses need to be built but there isn’t masses of available space in most of London

I live in a borough which is better than most at building, largely by infilling wasted space in existing estates but there is currently a long-running protest preventing the council building 20 new homes because it means cutting down a few poplar trees so people camped out in the trees for months to stop them being felled for the building work to commence

We’ve also had protests from council residents when there were plans to demolish a garage block to build more flats
Apparently a space to dump all your old furniture and crap (because they were built in the 60s and are too small for modern cars) is more important than housing actual families

If existing council tenants can’t get behind the need for council housing in London, it’s hardly surprising it isn’t a huge nationwide priority and therefore councils are having to take this action to manage their lists

Makes sense, to be honest. And with the application of a bond to PRS they are doing all they can. The clearly want to house these people but just don't have the physical ability to do so

I live in Social Housing. I was priority need with a small child because we were homeless due to ex. We waited 6 weeks for a 2 bed property (which is amazing) however the area we were offered, was not near family support, it's not an area of the city I know anyone, DS had to change schools. But I'm greatful for my house, beggars can't be choosers.

We couldn't stay homeless. I took what I was given to provide a roof over my son's head.

It is what it is, I know people will say "but that's not fair you didn't get your preferred choice" I'll take a home over preferred choice. What's more important?! Choice or a home.

When we came to buy a house we had to move out of the area we were renting in and away from family and friends because we couldn’t afford what we wanted in that area.

I personally think it’s shit when you consider the sheer numbers of unoccupied housing in London.

I'd be really interested to know how many of the Shared Ownership properties built by Housing Associations like Notting Hill Genesis are fully occupied. It seems to me that the HAs spend too much time, energy and resources on Shared Ownership and not enough on social housing, which serves a different demographic. And they have charitable status for tax purposes AFAIK.

This is a problem caused by people fundamentally misunderstanding how council house ‘waiting lists’ work. You might be on the list forever, but it doesn’t mean that you’ll ever get a house. Someone who joins the list tomorrow might get a house by Thursday, if they have a genuine housing need.

I’m reality, there is no ‘list’. It’s just a database.

Housing is allocated in priority order, and time spent on the waiting list is usually no longer a factor.

And if you don’t have a housing need and are not likely to then there is essentially zero chance of you getting a house. If you ever need a house (because you’re in danger, or homeless, or whatever) then you can join the list and you’ll automatically go to the top. There’s literally no point in sitting on the list if your priority is three or four categories down because there will never be enough housing in most areas for you to ever get a house. In effect all you’re doing is costing your housing authority money to administrate a huge and unwieldy list.

Your friend would be better off marching for thousands more social houses to be built across the capital. That’s the only chance she stands of getting one.

The friend who is marching should understand that people who don’t qualify for social housing have to make choices and leave their network to move out of London everyday. Wonder what her reasoning is for thinking that she shouldn’t have to do the same.

I find it a bit mad that it's okay to accept people having to move away from their support network. Is this what life is really coming to?

In fairness this is what life has always been like for many (probably most?) of us.

We leave the places we are from because there is no work there, and we go where the work is. And we work, and build lives in the new place - this is why I have cousins all over the world. And yes, you lose a lot in terms of family and friends, and yes that is sad...but you can earn enough to live.

It is tough on people who are currently on the list and have the ground cut out from under them though.

If we weren't all so ground down at the moment we should all be marching for lots more good quality social housing to be built.
I'm old enough to remember when it was known as "council housing" and could be your home for as long as you needed/wanted it and paid the rent.

I think atm if it is deemed that you could pay the type of rent asked by a private landlord that is where you are directed

I moved away from my friends and family (several hours away) for work. I continued to move around to progress my career as much as I could.
With children in school that would be much harder but 1 move should be manageable if it means suitable housing surely.
I used to work in a legal advice clinic where we gave free advice to people who couldn't afford a solicitor. It was in London and we got this a lot. Most of the people lived in cheaper and better accommodation than I did but wanted to be in zone 2 or wanted their grown up children to live with them (and in one case also keep his own council flat 🤣). They got the appropriate advice about criteria etc and shortages, huffed and puffed usually about it being unfair. Sometimes people had real over crowding issues and we could help.

The sheer entitlement really pissds me off! If I lost my job tomorrow I'd have to move out of London and leave all my friends behind and support network if I couldn't get a job that covered my costs.

I'm not being funny but in how many of these cases did these people have opportunities to better their situation and didn't...choosing to have children when they don't have a stable environment

I get sick of being told I should be grateful to have a job and quit complaining there is no payrise well if thats the case...quit moaning your having to leave an area if your being offered the accommodation you say you need in another part of the country.

If you really want to stay, stump up where u r or earn money the afford it.

Many people cant afford to live in London who are private buyers! My parents moved out a long while ago as prices in "good " areas were very high. While I have sympathy for those on SH ,who have to live away from their support network this is hardly new! Big cities and attractive areas will always be full .Less desirable areas will have spaces ,its just how it is .When Council homes were originally built in the 50s and 60s there was a much smaller population ,and homes were plentiful .As the population has grown ,and demand for housing has as well ,Councils are in the unenviable position of having to make unpopular choices!

@urbanbuddha

I personally think it’s shit when you consider the sheer numbers of unoccupied housing in London.

I'd be really interested to know how many of the Shared Ownership properties built by Housing Associations like Notting Hill Genesis are fully occupied. It seems to me that the HAs spend too much time, energy and resources on Shared Ownership and not enough on social housing, which serves a different demographic. And they have charitable status for tax purposes AFAIK.

I worked in development finance in housing associations for a number of years. Shared ownership and outright sale is how housing associations cross-subsidise the building of social rented and affordable rented units. It’s prohibitively expensive, once you factor in the cost of land, to build social housing in London and almost invariably the only way it can be done is through the profits from sales - particularly since lenders expect housing associations to be able to demonstrate that a social rented unit can “pay back” its finance within the term. With social rents as low as £120 a week for a one bedroom flat in many boroughs, the figures simply don’t stack up.

We should build much more social housing, but even if we did, it would simply reduce the wait times for those in priority need.

It’s not going to create so much housing that everyone can live where they feel like living.

So have your council removed the “length of time on list” points part of the process? Because if they haven’t then they are being really unfair on those they will take off the list who may find themselves in different circumstances and back on it later.

However, I do think a dose of realism is needed.

Well, I think you need to have higher standards and expectations of our society and its public services.

Attitudes like yours are why this situation has happened.

And yes, you lose a lot in terms of family and friends, and yes that is sad...but you can earn enough to live.

And the point of living is? To promote the survival of capitalism above all else?

We are a social species.

@Theoldprospector

We should build much more social housing, but even if we did, it would simply reduce the wait times for those in priority need.

It’s not going to create so much housing that everyone can live where they feel like living.

Yes, I think many people miss this point. The waiting list (or database as someone has mentioned is a more accurate description) in our area includes thousands of priority cases who will always be nearer the top of the list than a non -priority family. So even if the council was miraculously able to build hundreds of homes, only a small number those in greatest need at the top would be housed.

That would then leave thousands of thousands further down the list who will be waiting for years on end and yet never receive a council property as the priority families at the top will always be replaced by new priority families. This is a highly deprived area.

The parent from DD's school doesn't seem to grasp that barring a horrible change in her personal circumstances, she will not be considered a priority and has zero chance of being housed here. The area the council has offered to move her to is a pleasant town (imo) with good schools. I'm not sure what else she thinks can be done.

The length of wait only every applied for top points anyway. I spent years doing the get council magazine bid for 3 places. Maybe once month have one flat that was open to non priority groups and then time counted. So band D as it was mostly waiting 15 years plus and that whole section had 12 changes a year. Pretty dire

I don't know the answer but my DIL works for a company in West Yorkshire that houses people from London.
I don't see why people from London are allowed to be offered social housing here when there are thousands of people on the waiting lists here already!
It certainly wouldn't happen the other way round!
Just move everyone up North. We've got streets of empty houses apparently...

I completely agree OP.
I would even say that private renters/buyers often can’t afford to stay in Central London even if they grew up there and/or have their support network there, kid’s schools etc. No march for them…

@ftw163532 you talk about «public service» but genuinely I don’t understand what you suggest should happen? The council can’t magic up money to build many properties in an area where the market price is high. And also, why would the fact that the council is helping mean you don’t have to compromise on the location the same as a private renter/buyer?

‘I don't know the answer but my DIL works for a company in West Yorkshire that houses people from London.’

Someone on the thread already explained this. London boroughs have bought the housing.

Good for her with her march, if i was local I'd join her. At least she's doing something.

I think the single biggest thing the government could do to relieve poverty and provide some security in the UK is a massive expansion of social housing. And before people start with the 'we can't afford it' bollocks, housing generates rent, how do you think so many buy to let landlords got rich?

@Viviennemary

I find it a bit mad to have a baby if you haven't got accommodation. Why didn't you save up for a house first rather than leave the council to sort it out.

Don't come at me with this bull if you know nothing of the situation. Sorry we can't all straight up afford to buy or to save to buy.

If you must know though, we were due to buy the house we are actually in and had an agreement with landlord. Due to house sales flying at the moment our landlord wants the money now, which we can't afford right now so has left us stumped.
We won't be in private/council all our lives but buying right now or the next two years isn't an option for us. If private rent comes up then we'll go for it but it's not there

Ridiculous getting this kind of attitude. Didn't know only those who could buy a house were entitled to children 🙃

@ftw163532

However, I do think a dose of realism is needed.

Well, I think you need to have higher standards and expectations of our society and its public services.

Attitudes like yours are why this situation has happened.

I expect Public Services to help those in need and in this case the parent I've described has been given assistance. She just doesn't like the kind of assistance she's been given - a house in an area where there is availability vs a house here, in one of the most expensive areas in the country with limited social housing.

I'm not clear on why my calling for realism has created "this situation" (lack of social housing?). Do you think if we pretend the situation isn't real and riot in the streets cash strapped councils are going to wave a magic wand and suddenly create 100,000 council homes in London?