To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

It’s been a long time since I rented but I do remember having a 12 month lease, and getting a notice to quit at the end of the term - then being offered the same flat at a much higher rent. I assume a HA just can’t do that?

@KittenKong no. I have a lifelong tenancy and rent increases capped at a certain % a year. Very limited circumstance in which they can evict.

I think one place to start would be to have really high council taxes on second homes and no single occupancy discounts to encourage people to downsize to accommodate better sized to there needs.

Where do they all downsize to? There's a severe shortage in many areas of smaller homes.

Scrapping the single occupancy. So people will be encouraged to stay in miserable - sometimes, abusive - relationships.

Or moved on when widowed?

@Aspiringmatriarch

It's not an entitlement culture. It's about communities not being decimated. Why should London be an elites only place, how is that of benefit to anyone? And who is going to clean offices, do care work, serve coffee etc if everyone on low income is priced out of living there?

Not everyone on a low income will be priced out though. Even if London and other big cities don’t have enough housing for all the people that want it, they do still house hundreds of thousands of people. Then there are the people that are still living with their parents, young people happy to live in house shares for a few years for the London lifestyle and students. And there are the people that are able to private rent because of housing benefit.

It is sad when communities are affected by economics, like when people can’t afford to live in the place they grew up, or they are forced to move away from where they grew up simply to find a job. But it’s part of life, and London really doesn’t need to have more low skilled or under employed families living there than it already has.

So NailsNeedDoing you think it's ok to socially cleanse people too ill or disabled to work, or caring for a disabled child, away from their home communities, family, and support networks?

And there are the people that are able to private rent because of housing benefit

You're 20 years out of date.

London really doesn’t need to have more low skilled or under employed families living there than it already has.

Why doesn't it? The consequences of social cleansing impact across society - including financially.

And actually London does need teachers, doctors, nurses, cleaners, hospitality and retail staff.

Where do all the socially cleansed families and vulnerable individuals go btw? We've all seen the recent media articles and threads on here about locals elsewhere expressing hostility to displaced Londoners. Partly because 'somewhere cheaper' is no longer cheaper when lots of people love there.

*move (I doubt they love being somewhere far away from support and surrounded by unwelcoming locals).

@Tealightsandd

So NailsNeedDoing you think it's ok to socially cleanse people too ill or disabled to work, or caring for a disabled child, away from their home communities, family, and support networks?

If I lost my job tomorrow and couldn't find another one that paid the same, I won't be given help from the council and I won't be able to afford to stay in London near my friends and family and support network. I would have no choice but to sell my house and move away to somewhere I can afford.

Is that social cleansing? Or just life? I think that is called 'thats life'!

So even though as a tax payer I've paid into the system my whole life I wont get help. So seriously I'm not going to be sympathetic to those who need help but have to live in another area. Because they should to a certain degree be fecking grateful that other people have worked or are working and paid for them to have a roof over their heads.

@Dreamstate

It’s been a long-running theme on MN that SH tenants need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes to the sanctity of ‘support networks’ and moving areas or properties

Yet at the same time, it’s deeply patronising to suggest SH tenants are any different to anyone else - housing benefit shouldn’t be directly paid to landlords because it’s patronising, it’s outrageous to tell HA tenants they can’t have pets

[quote Tenbob]@Dreamstate

It’s been a long-running theme on MN that SH tenants need to be treated with kid gloves when it comes to the sanctity of ‘support networks’ and moving areas or properties

Yet at the same time, it’s deeply patronising to suggest SH tenants are any different to anyone else - housing benefit shouldn’t be directly paid to landlords because it’s patronising, it’s outrageous to tell HA tenants they can’t have pets[/quote]
Well I'd have to question how they can afford to have pets (unless its for medical reasons) sorry if that's harsh but I cant afford a pet so how the hell does someone who needs taxpayers money to help them get a roof over their head suddenly can?

That's the reality of life.

@Tealightsandd

So NailsNeedDoing you think it's ok to socially cleanse people too ill or disabled to work, or caring for a disabled child, away from their home communities, family, and support networks?

I think people who have to cope with long term illness or disability who couldn’t be adequately supported elsewhere should have priority for the housing stock that we have. Because thats genuine need, not those like the OP’s friend who just want to live near their Mum.

In an ideal world it would be great if everyone could have what you want, but the reality is it’s never going to happen. In all walks of life, people have to live away from their families for various reasons, it’s really not that bad.

I think it's so cheeky to feel entitled to live in a certain area just because you want to. Most normal people have to move for work or simply because they can't afford to live there. We earn well but could not afford to live in Dublin or London because the prices are extortionate. That's life. As for a support network, what's that? I don't think I've ever had one in my life. That's a luxury not a necessity.

It's ridiculous!!! I don't live near my family/ support network as there are NO jobs in the area. Instead i live 400 miles away, work 50 hours a week and have a mortgage. WHY do some people (no all) feel they are entitled to blood my live near their support network????? It makes me sooo angry!!!!

@sst1234

Living in London is not a right. In the same way as living in New York, Paris and Hong Kong is not a right. Millions of people live outside London because they can afford to live in a major capital of the world. And the argument about who will do the key worker jobs if the low paid move out is a false argument. If supply of subsidized workers was low, wages would go up. Wages are suppressed artificially in London because of taxpayer intervention which helps no one.

I couldn't agree more. 👏

It's ridiculous!!! I don't live near my family/ support network as there are NO jobs in the area. Instead i live 400 miles away, work 50 hours a week and have a mortgage. WHY do some people (no all) feel they are entitled to blood my live near their support network????? It makes me sooo angry!!!!

You sound delightful.

London really doesn’t need to have more low skilled or under employed families living there than it already has.

Why doesn't it? The consequences of social cleansing impact across society - including financially.

And actually London does need teachers, doctors, nurses, cleaners, hospitality and retail staff.

I'm not sure doctor's, teachers and nurses could be described as low skilled....neither are they on NMW or zero hours contracts like retail or hospitality...

I'm bemused to read some believe a support network is a luxury not a necessity. I worked hard to build a support network when I had my first DC. It makes life so much easier if you are held up at work and you have someone who can collect your DC from nursery or, have your DC for the day if you're unwell, and obviously you can also support them if needed (Lockdown gave me lots of opportunity to give back). It's really important to try to build a support network, and a very tough thing to do if you move area.

A support network is important I agree, but it doesn’t have to come from living in the same place all your life. It is possible to build up a new network in a new area. The taxpayer can’t be expected to pay for everyone to have someone nearby that can pick up their child from nursery.

Fascinating to see the completely different attitudes towards London locals. Now when it's Cornwall or another Beauty Spot, we see a wildly different narrative.

So. Where do you suggest all the (very many) displaced Londoners are socially cleansed to? The locals elsewhere have made their hostility quite clear. The opposite of a warm welcome. Not go mention the Lib Dems winning campaigns on NIMBYism.

Research on the links between poverty, social cleansing, and mental health were reported on the other day. Displacement away from families and support networks impacts heavily on mental health. It's a big reason why we're seeing such increased demand for the services. Services, which of course cost a lot of money.

support network is important I agree, but it doesn’t have to come from living in the same place all your life.

It often does when a family or vulnerable individual is already going through a difficult, distressing, or traumatic time. Very often a literal lifesaver.

How do the socially cleansed pay for their displacement btw? Have you seen the thread on removal costs?

@Fizbosshoes

London really doesn’t need to have more low skilled or under employed families living there than it already has.

Why doesn't it? The consequences of social cleansing impact across society - including financially.

And actually London does need teachers, doctors, nurses, cleaners, hospitality and retail staff.

I'm not sure doctor's, teachers and nurses could be described as low skilled....neither are they on NMW or zero hours contracts like retail or hospitality...

Yes indeed. That demonstrates quite how bad the public health housing emergency has got in London.

When people in jobs not traditionally thought of as low paid are struggling to afford settled housing.

@Booboosweet

I think it's so cheeky to feel entitled to live in a certain area just because you want to. Most normal people have to move for work or simply because they can't afford to live there. We earn well but could not afford to live in Dublin or London because the prices are extortionate. That's life. As for a support network, what's that? I don't think I've ever had one in my life. That's a luxury not a necessity.

Not necessary for you perhaps. For many it is. If you have vulnerable family or children with disabilities then it may well be necessary.