To think these changes to the housing waiting list are not “cruel” but simply realistic?

[Eastie77Returns]

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

I think it’s a sensible idea really as at least people will know where they stand. The reality is that most people will never be housed by the council and so it seems unfair giving them a false sense of security, when the realty is, it’ll never come to fruition.

If people know they aren’t entitled then they will make other arrangements and think about moving further afield where there is more of a realistic chance of being helped.

Just like anything really, once an area is too expensive and prices are driven up, by demand outstripping supply, those that can’t afford it are priced out.

It’s the same as buying a house. I’m sure most people would love to afford Chelsea but sadly real estate values there means that the vast majority of people never will be in that position.

I do feel for people who were born in an around London and I agree it’s not ideal leaving a support network, but equally, sadly it’s not going to change so there’s no point in living in a false sense of security

As long as you’re ok eh? The U.K. needs a mass programme of social housing and rent caps. It’s the only way forward

@Waferbiscuit

I really do support the need for SH but as someone from N America, I was really struck by the way so many people I encounter in the UK believe that (a) the govt has a duty to house you and an expectation once housed to be housed forever no matter how good much your circumstances improve and by the belief, backed up by policy that (b) the idea of community and staying in one's network is only of value to those in poorer areas but not at all relevant or considered for the lower-to-middle classes and above. They have to move hours away for work but, on the other hand, it's critical that Jane down the road and her three children live next door to her mom and across from Auntie and cousins. If anything that kind of thinking encourages a kind of tribalism and ultra-reliance on family networks that I find a bit strange.

David Goodheart's book The Road to Somewhere is a really illuminating book about the ideological divide in the country between those who are rooted in 'somewhere' and those who are less rooted, the sort of more metropolitan, international nomads. It helps to explain why some people feel they must live in Islington where they grew up even if most of London can't afford to.

Great post

Thank you, someone that understands. People having families thst. Any affor housing need to go where there is housing.

@Eastie77Returns

Our council has announced changes to the local housing waiting list from next month. There are tens of thousands on the list who will never be housed as they are not deemed to be in urgent need so they will now be removed.

The council has said they will be offered “personalised support to explore their options” which probably means advising they leave London, advances to help with private rent etc. I understand in many cases that is really not helpful but a close relative of mine who works in housing has been on the phone to me in tears because of the level of abuse she has faced from frustrated residents who have been on the list for years and are being removed.

Now a parent from DD’s school is organising a march on the town hall to protest all of this and has asked parents for support. She has been offered a council house 100+ miles outside London and is refusing to leave as her support network is here and I fully understand that. However, I do think a dose of realism is needed. There are 15,000 people on the waiting list here and a few hundred council properties become available each year. This parent has been told she does not fall into the 3 bands that will be kept on the list so she will never get a council house and she has responded by accusing the council of unimaginable cruelty

I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?

I would do following:

1. Get rid of social housing
2. Introduce fixed rent for private landlords based on certain rules
3. Replace social housing with monetary input towards private rent.

I might be naive but this seems to me a solution to housing limitation more realistic than getting more social housing, which will simply not happen...

@Wroxie

I just found out that there are three council houses on my street of 4-5 bedroom terraces- which is great, I think that council housing should be mixed in with non-council housing. The issue is, however, that each of these 4-5 bedroom houses are occupied by single women who had families that have now grown up and moved out. I don't know any of these women to speak to, for all I know they've been on waiting lists for years to trade for smaller houses (though I doubt it). In any case, there are about ten excess bedrooms just on one street that not being used by people who desperately need them because these women can't or won't move to more suitably-sized homes.

I worked with someone similar. Got a council house years ago when she was low income and young children. In that time she got a good job, her husband retrained and was (they are both now retired) a high grade nurse in the NHS and their children grew up and moved out. She didn't see why she should move even though they could afford to buy their own home, the mortgage was more than her four bed council house. As far as I know they are still there, two pensioners taking up a family council home.

[quote EvilPea]@Hamster1111
Even private renting is hard. You have to find a landlord willing to take on children and pets if you have them. You need to prove your income and your affordability by producing bank statements. If you claim any benefits you could be ruled out.
That’s before you’ve gone up against the x amount of others looking in the area.[/quote]
@EvilPea (live the name!) - this is so true. We are in the middle of trying to rent a property, and it really has been a nightmare. And it is a house that I don’t particularly like, in an area I don’t particularly like. But it’s what we can afford, so needs must.

Ah I think this is your experience of England.

I can only speak for Wales and the LA I live in.

The WAG gave mass amounts of grant money recently to improve social housing stock and make them "eco friendly". This was subsidised by the EU.

So every council home had a kitchen and bathroom re fit. They are in the process of re-cladding and insulating all social housing stock.

Right to buy has been abolished in Wales for some years now.

With regards to life time tenancies, my LA don't operate them really. If you cause any breach of your tenancy agreement so rent arrears or damage/ASB if you don't make an effort to engage or rectify the issue eviction process will begin.

My LA are tough on this. So if you are a good tenant, pay your rent, look after the property and are a good neighbour you can retain your tenancy.

If you fall behind on your rent, the rents team can assist by asking you to to apply for direct payment to landlord on your UC claim or making a payment a plan.

Housing officer also comes round every 6 months to inspect the property.

They also have sped up the "downsize process" by operating two lists effectively. One is the overcrowded list and one is the under occupancy list. As part of your tenancy agreement you agree that should under occupancy occur you will engage in the home swap scheme. Failure to do so, would mean...eviction.

So say there's a family with 1 child over crowded in a 1 bed and a single person in a 3 bed they will notify the 3 bed tenant that they must engage in a swap. There is a specific team in housing options that do this.

If you are evicted from LA for breach of tenancy you are deemed intentionally homeless therefore no recourse to the housing list and no priority need.

Some will say it's tough but it's ironed out many of the issues people are talking about. It's also helped make communities in these mass estates a better place to live.

So basically it's a tenancy for life if you play by the understandable and fair rules.

They have also removed the 3 choices. You get one offer, turn it down and duty is discharged. This is how they have also sped up the allocation process.

Quote fail

That was to @OverTheRubicon

Sorry.

The Pay to Stay bill only failed because of the difficulties in implementing it. It will be resurrected for sure once all the ‘sink estates’ have been demolished and those particular residents moved out of London to make way for private developments. The remainder of tenants living in social housing in the capital will be out priced. The Tory government does not want poor people taking up valuable space! They have for years deliberately underfunded Social Housing and touted it as being ‘subsidised’. It’s NOT subsidised. It’s a not for profit rent controlled accommodation. Private rents are inflated. It’s no different to the NHS. It’s just not wanted.

Yes private renters are often the forgotten middle. I remember a debate on social media where someone had a beautiful SH property, a 2 bed in a very desirable area in London. Both her and her husband earned well, so were able to save a lot as her rent was only £650 pcm. Someone commented that she was so lucky, and she was very offended saying that she wasn't privelged at all - unlike private renters she couldn't choose the exact house in the exact location she wanted. A lot of private rentals are hugely overpriced because the market is brimming, standards can be really poor and long term lets are few and far between.

I spent 2.5 years trying to move from a damp, overcrowded private rental. We would view one property a week, have the application and references ready every time but due to the 20 other applicants the LL was in a position were he could choose who he wanted. I would have taken her London SH property over my situation any day!

The issue is, however, that each of these 4-5 bedroom houses are occupied by single women who had families that have now grown up and moved out.

While I don't think people should be forced to move, I definitely think they should be strongly encouraged with no council tax discounts etc. Of course they also need somewhere suitable to go. I think this equally applies to owner occupation as well, they should be strongly encouraged to downsize. Single pensioners living in large family homes that are completely unsuitable. I don't understand why they don't sell, move somewhere cheaper to heat and maintain and spend they money they've saved living better.

My rent was over 2K in London so I found it hard to save money. I wanted to buy a house there, but couldn’t afford it, so I had to move out of London where I could afford to buy a suitable property for my family. I don’t expect anyone else to fund me and I would love more kids but would need a bigger house, so I have stopped reproducing. It’s called being responsible. I agree with you!

There's no easy solutions. I was born and raised in north London, we moved to Essex because we couldn't afford to buy where we wanted. Now my area is unaffordable for many to make that first step. It was easy for us to make the move because we would own our house. I can see why there would be bitterness from people being asked to move, but I really can't see this government making meaningful changes to remedy this housing drama.

I have many cousins in north London who work full time and would never be able to afford a mortgage, so are at the mercy of private renting. They feel quite bitter about the housing scenario because there is a visible battle happening between the gentrification lot and the social housing lot (it's quite nasty and very territorial). Many in the middle (who grew up in the area, work full time, earn a decent wage but privately rent) feel they don't really have a voice or ear to listen.

[quote Cailleachian]"I don’t understand where she expects the council to magically just find thousands of homes and change that situation?"

@Eastie77Returns I think I may have a suggestion for you

www.businessinsider.com/housing-market-rental-prices-berlin-referendum-landlords-public-apartments-crisis-2021-9?r=US&IR=T[/quote]
No knock on consequences of that nice idea, no none at all...

In the UK today, in general, corporate landlords are actually more responsible and professional than small landlords - and they also have the capital to invest in increasing the supply of good quality rental housing at scale. If you want to stop all development of good quality private rental housing overnight, I can think of no better way than for the state to confiscate corporate landlords’ property. And no I don’t believe the state would do the development instead - where would the money come from? They’d presumably be charging sub commercial rents on the property they’d confiscated, be responsible for its maintenance and management, and also lose tax revenue from the corporate landlords.

Interestingly the Swedes have well intentioned state intervention in Stockholm housing a bit like this. But it is a disaster - it has led to a privileged well connected few enjoying rent controls for life and everyone else scrabbling round for scraps with no security at all.

Is why so many women can't leave domestic violence and murdered. Was on list long time then they did same thing your council done. Stayed with very violent partner cos of it. If you need familiarity and support network things you can't go strange place and people in new place don't want you there. If you frightened had lots of trauma disability you need familiar and network support.

The issues with private renting are never heard as it is a 1st world problem to many
“You have a roof over your head what’s your problem?”

But it is all consuming, miserable and just an existence, it’s not a life, it affects and impacts every decision you make. But you do have a roof over your head, so your in no place to moan. But it is shit.

It’s such a complicated issue, it’s the housing market as a whole that needs fixing. Not just social housing.
When you look at the average wage vs the average house price. It doesn’t add up.
We need to build more social housing - nice places people want, like 1940’s maisonettes, with gardens and driveways. It will suit small families and OAPs who might consider down sizing their 3 bed social house. stop right to buy, nice idea but not feasible anymore.
Get renters mortgages by proving they’ve spent 10 years paying the same amount as that mortgage.
At which point buy to let is looking less attractive as there’s fewer renters. So that frees up more property’s to buy which might help level the market.

So if these people are moved hundreds of miles away what happens if they have a job in London do the council fihd them a job or do they just join the dole queue. Most areas of UK that have spare housing stock are not areas of high employment.There is little spare housing stock in the east of England university city i live in where possibly jobs might be available.

Making people unemployed through no fault of their own seems very unfair,would you like it i wouldnt,. Also if person is a single parent possibly relatives providing child care.

More social housing is needed in London and many cities especially in Southern England but i see little hope of it happening under Johnson and co

Wales abolished the right to buy in 2018. It is completely feasable to do and other home nations should follow.

Many LA's in Wales are buying back social stock when it comes on the market also with cash offers to sellers.

We need more social housing and rent controls. A crackdown on.immigration and the removal of all illegal immigrants would also help. For Council housing- basically first come first served no exceptions.

Crack down on sub letting, its bloody greedy and shamefully shit. Unfortunately it's very common in cities

Bring back rent caps.

Being a bit of a Camden council bore ... a few years ago they had an amnesty on people subletting their council homes and there was A LOT! Then they did an exercise of trawling through AirBnB and found loads of council properties being let as holiday homes. Crack down must have helped

Is this RBKC by any chance …?

Upamountain43

Right to buy you only have to prove you are willing to work in the UK loophole and property sits empty like a piece of the monopoly board. Loads being sold to overseas investors unoccupied. Sometimes I feel those high rise apartments branded as luxury apartments are the social housing that should have been built. It’s been in overdrive like lego buildings popping up everywhere the fraction of affordable is not affordable housing.