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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

DP didn't understand why there was a vigil for Sabina Nessa?

77 replies

Doesntgetit · 26/09/2021 20:31

Sabina's murder happened in the borough where I live. I am so shocked by it, I thought this was a reasonably safe area for women, and would think nothing of walking alone at 8.30 as she did. Indeed during lockdown I would often go for walks at 10pm or later. It's tragic and I hope that they have now caught the man responsible.

Anyway, over the past week the murder and then the vigil has of course been on our local news.

DP said to me of the vigil why are they doing that? I said well because she was killed, women are fearful etc, and he said well why doesn't anyone protest about all the men who die every day? That men too are fearful and more likely to be attacked. And then went on to say that it hadn't been reported to be a sexually motivated crime so could as easily have been a man.

I honestly didn't know what to say to that, so left it there saying it was very sad and I hope they catch the person responsible.

I'm not rethinking our relationship over this exactly, but it has rather thrown me. We've been together a long time and in general he's sensitive and caring. Cruelty to children, animals etc is something he loathes, he's rescued injured animals etc, yet I can't believe he just didn't get it.

OP posts:
Limejuiceandrum · 26/09/2021 22:01

I mean it’s just lower intelligence
But if that’s what you go for in someone then 🤷🏽‍♀️

lljkk · 26/09/2021 22:06

I'm with OP's DH.
I don't "get" the vigils either (or for Sarah E)
I don't identify with SN or SE.
I get that other people identify with them or feel personally threatened by the information about their demise.
But I can't identify with any of it.

Etinox · 26/09/2021 22:16

@lljkk

I'm with OP's DH. I don't "get" the vigils either (or for Sarah E) I don't identify with SN or SE. I get that other people identify with them or feel personally threatened by the information about their demise. But I can't identify with any of it.
Strange thing to say. I attended not because it could have been me, but because I was touched and concerned that people felt her death wasn’t getting media attention and I wanted to be seen to pay attention.
Plumtree391 · 27/09/2021 20:54

The suspect the police caught is going to be charged with Sabina's murder, a 36 year old man called Koci Selamaj. No doubt we'll find out all about him in due course.

Thank goodness, as long as it is the right person of course.

Plumtree391 · 27/09/2021 20:56

I think the vigil was a very good, caring act and Sabina's family will have appreciated it.

DaphneDeloresMoorhead · 27/09/2021 21:16

@FlorenceWintle

He’s a man so of course he doesn’t get it. But he should listen and allow himself to be educated.

I commented that there wasn’t very many men there and my DH said ‘well, no, I wouldn’t go, it’s a woman’s issue and I wouldn’t be welcome’. I got rather cross and said it’s not just a woman’s issue, it’s everyone’s issue including men! He backed down sharpish and apologised!

My husband said much the same at the time the other lady was killed.

It took me a long time to get it through his brain but what finally clicked was when I asked him if he thought he'd have a good chance of fending off an attacker. Then I asked him what he thought my chances would be if a bloke his size attacked me. He did the usual blustery answer.

I then said " do you think I could hurt you with my bare hands ? Being honest with yourself ? You know I couldn't. This is why women have to use a weapon to defend or attack - because it's the only possibility most of us have of overpowering a man"

He actually got it then

DaphneDeloresMoorhead · 27/09/2021 21:16

Sorry I didn't mean to quote that poster.DH said about men being more likely to be attacked.

pelosi · 27/09/2021 21:19

I thought this was a reasonably safe area for women, and would think nothing of walking alone at 8.30 as she did.

I was quite annoyed with the news channels implying women in the area wouldn’t walk through that park at night, it seemed to imply that it was partly Sabina’s fault. Sad

Pedalpushers · 27/09/2021 21:20

I support the vigil and think your DP is being unreasonable in centering men in a female issue. As others say, it's very like asking 'when is international MEN'S day' and thinking you've made some kind of point.

However it is just not true that men 'get attacked but survive' or that women are more likely to be targeted when out walking. 70% of homicide victims in the UK are men and more of them are killed by strangers than female homicides, which are more often by partners.

That doesn't mean women can't organise vigils for their own concerns of course.

pelosi · 27/09/2021 21:34

Tell DH: Over the last 10 years:

an average of EIGHTY women killed each year by a partner or ex-partner

Only TWO % (9 men) killed by a partner or ex-partner

Tell DH

93% of killers in England and Wales are men, official figures show

Tell DH this is why we have vigils.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/articles/homicideinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/women-murders-men-ons-sarah-everard-b1815779.html%3famp

forthelaughs · 27/09/2021 22:19

@Goawayquickly

It's quite simple. Sabina's brutal murder felt personal to you as you're a woman in the same area doing the same things she did.

If your DP feels strongly about male murders then he can help organise vigils for those victims.

Exactly that
MissTrip82 · 27/09/2021 22:53

Just ask him if he was disappointed by the attendance at the last vigil he organised.

TyrannosaurusRights · 27/09/2021 22:53

@Doesntgetit

He's come close to being mugged/ assaulted a few times (by men) - a lot closer than I ever have - luckily for me, I'd hate to have been in that situation. Which I think for him reinforces it's no more dangerous to be a woman than a man. Based on us as a very narrow sample.
Out of interest does this experience push him to consider his own safety more when making plans?

For example:

Does he walk the long route because it’s better lit and has safe places to ask for help if he’s followed?

Does he avoid listening to music/podcasts when walking alone?

Does he plan to be home earlier than he might like or budget and plan for a safe exit (eg pre booked hotel or taxi)?

Does he text/ring you when he leaves the pub so you know to expect him soon and his mate when he gets home so they know he got home safely after a night out?

Does he change his route or pop into a shop if he becomes aware of someone walking closely behind him?

Does he carry his keys in the stab position?

Does he pick his parking position based on safety or convenience?

Get him to write his list of stuff he consciously does routinely to avoid attacks. Write your own. Compare and contrast.

Original poster
Doesntgetit · 27/09/2021 23:24

@TyrannosaurusRights interestingly he's generally more risk averse than me. He doesn't walk anywhere at night, will always take the car, and if I walk back from the station or somewhere he wants me to phone him as soon as I get home. He is often on the alert, sometimes we'll park the car somewhere (car park at night for example) and he'll point out someone who he thinks is suspicious, or will make sure to park away from cars he thinks look dodgy. He notices things I don't a lot of the time. I actually think he is a lot more cautious than I am.

That said, if it came to it he is much bigger and stronger than me, if one of us was attacked, God forbid, he'd be a lot more capable of defending himself than I would.

OP posts:
NewlyGranny · 27/09/2021 23:25

Any man who asks any woman when International Men's Day falls needs to be answered with, "No idea - it's your day, you tell me." And if there isn't one, why doesn't he organise one? That's how these things start! Does he imaging men invented IWD? Seriously?

As for OP's DH who has only ever been assaulted by a woman, not a man, here are some potential questions: Was he put in fear of his life during the assault? Did he try to run or fight back? Did he have marks or bruises as evidence? Where was he and why, and what was he wearing at the time? How has he changed his routines and general behaviour since to keep himself safer?

Seriously, would he be more concerned about suffering an assault by a woman or by a man?

NewlyGranny · 27/09/2021 23:27

The people he thinks look suspicious, OP: male or female? Ask him why. He knows, but perhaps he's never really reflected on it or articulated it. Time he did, I'd say.

PlanDeRaccordement · 27/09/2021 23:29

@GettingUntrapped

He missed the memo that the world is waking up to the gigantic and ever present oppression of women by men. The vigil is part of that awakening. Of course men kill other men too, but it's mostly men.
You really think so? I did as a young woman some thirty years ago when we also held vigils. But not much has changed since then other than the fact that my husband now can’t legally rape me. When we married, marital rape was still legal....

Forgive me if I don’t see the world “waking up”. They’ve known forever.

LalalalalalaLand123 · 27/09/2021 23:32

He's a total bellend OP. How men can't see what a threat they pose, and how vulnerable women are, is beyond me. Ask him why men aren't organising vigils for men who are killed, nothing's stopping them! The issue is the epidemic of male violence - against men, women and children....what's he doing to stop it? Sweet FA.

FrozenoutofCostco · 28/09/2021 00:33

I live in the Yorkshire dales and I'm staggered by all this and what I hear goes on in London. This all sounds like a different country entirely.

debbieupper9 · 28/09/2021 01:22

I agree with the other PPs, your DH is a twat

Plumtree391 · 28/09/2021 01:23

I'm quite sure there is crime, and occasionally a murder, in Yorkshire. I watch Heartbeat :-).

However there is undoubtedly more murder in urban areas. There are also more people!

London is huge and it's fine but it depends whereabouts you live. There are safe areas and places where you don't go out at night alone, same as any city. The area where Sabina Nessa was murdered used to have a dreadful reputation for crime but in recent years has been 'gentrified'; very popular with young professionals.

Susannahmoody · 28/09/2021 01:59

They're not used to living the life of people who feel vulnerable all the time and plan accordingly

^

This. I was walking with the pram one time and this fella stopped and told me I was on the wrong side of the street (I wasn't)

I went home and told DH. I asked him if any man had ever stopped him and told him to do something differently.... Of course he said no, and if they did he would tell them to fuck off!

Voilà

Susannahmoody · 28/09/2021 02:01

93% of killers in England and Wales are men, official figures show

^

Incredible

urbanbuddha · 28/09/2021 02:14

The people he thinks look suspicious, OP: male or female? Ask him why. He knows, but perhaps he's never really reflected on it or articulated it. Time he did, I'd say.

Absolutely.

pelosi · 28/09/2021 06:26

@FrozenoutofCostco

I live in the Yorkshire dales and I'm staggered by all this and what I hear goes on in London. This all sounds like a different country entirely.
Er, Yorkshire Ripper?