To support Kier Starmer’s school policy even though I would usually vote Blue…

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www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-vows-tax-private-25072816

(Original article I read was on the BBC but they seem to have merged it in to another about general tax policy now)

I haven’t voted Labour at any point during my working life and in general am in favour of a meritocracy, free market, and low regulation

However this policy has touched a nerve, in a good way. I think it’s astounding private schools remain ‘charities’ and don’t pay tax. If parents can afford to send their children to private school, I’ve no real issue with it, but let them pay an additional 20% to properly contribute in line with their privilege.

Of course there is the counter argument that private school families already pay tax and therefore are funding schooling their own kids aren’t using.

But still, on balance I’m supportive.

What does everyone think?

It is envy politics as someone has said upthread

No, it isn’t. Why should I subsidise your decision to buy your children privilege?

Such a terrible term envy politics ridiculous snobbery

Children that are able to be sent to private schools are very privileged. I dislike this pretence that this should not be acknowledged. The reason being for the vast majority is that they are from families that can afford this privilege

@Blossomtoes

It is envy politics as someone has said upthread

No, it isn’t. Why should I subsidise your decision to buy your children privilege?

You’re not. A private school not paying tax on something they’ve never paid tax on is not you subsidising them.

But if you think that, then maybe people who send their children to private school should get a tax reduction for not using any state school places, which they could use towards paying the VAT?

@Blossomtoes

It is envy politics as someone has said upthread

No, it isn’t. Why should I subsidise your decision to buy your children privilege?

Yet the tax paid isn’t used in state system

Which will go towards state education not used

Private schools are businesses in the main. they should not be given tax breaks. The exception are those that do not make profits.

Oh my how out of touch some are if they think that others believe they struggle to pay £2500 a month. That is a choice

The average wage isn’t even that it’s a considerable amount less

The money will be found the schools will help families out and their profits will be less

Good it’s a business a hugely profitable one for many many private schools that some of the most elite schools have charitable status is outrageous

You’re not. A private school not paying tax on something they’ve never paid tax on is not you subsidising them

I am. Private schools are businesses. They should pay tax just like every other business. They should lose their charitable status and the proceeds go into the education budget.

If parents can afford to send their children to private school, I’ve no real issue with it, but let them pay an additional 20% to properly contribute in line with their privilege.

That's not much of an argument. I could say, "If you can afford to buy a house, you can afford to pay 1% more income tax to go towards homeless shelters." Or, "If you can afford to get a takeway, you can afford a £5 surcharge on top to fund food banks."

People forget that as well
As not charging vat the school
Also cannot reclaim vat

Terrible idea, politics of envy which would undoubtedly force many private schools to close

And it 100% will not raise the quality of education in a state school

I work in a private school that is small, non selective, not in the SE and has a wide mix of intake and socio-economic status. We do not have spare swimming pools to decommission or luxury facilities of any kind. We do have small classes and staff that routinely work til 6pm or later (boarding) on state school teachers pay. That allows us to give the biggest resource we have, which is time, to run over 100 extra curricular clubs and activities, most of which don't cost anything or very little and to me, this is what makes it worth the fees, compared to the well performing comps who shut the gates at 3pm. I get why, workload is horrendous which 1500+ kids in a school, but my point is that you simply cannot have a meaningful discussion about this because all schools are different. Yes there are some with massive endowments, lots of land, billionaire alumni etc but most really aren't. A case by case, school by school assessment of tax due might be reasonable but to simply assume that all or even most could absorb it, or that most parents could cover it if passed on to them is far too simplistic.

@OhWhyNot

Oh my how out of touch some are if they think that others believe they struggle to pay £2500 a month. That is a choice

The average wage isn’t even that it’s a considerable amount less

The money will be found the schools will help families out and their profits will be less

Good it’s a business a hugely profitable one for many many private schools that some of the most elite schools have charitable status is outrageous

Is it really beyond the realms of possibility to believe that someone who could afford £2500 a month for something couldn’t afford to pay £3000 a month? An extra £6000 a year?

Yet everyone should be up in arms about someone paying £5 a month more NI as it’s “a tax on the poor?”

The politics of envy.

Private school parents ALREADY pay a tax that pays for state school places, because they're the 40% taxpayers who are funding public services. And since they aren't using those state school places for their own DC, ergo they're paying to educate the DC of other people.

Fortunately, I can't see Keir and his cabal of loonie lefties getting into No 10 any time soon. Listening to him tie himself in knots this morning when Andrew Marr asked him whether only women have cervixes was hilarious.

I’ve recently managed to pay an extra £200 a month for a tutor

I don’t earn what you pay a month

That is a privilege that I can afford and I’m grateful for that it’s tighten my belt but it’s a choice I can afford to make. I couldn’t of a year ago and well aware that many couldn’t even think about it

I’m sure you shall find the money if needed.

Schools can help out families if it comes to this (sadly probably won’t)

The pleading of poverty or having to cut back is something I am used to hearing in the playground it’s quite sickening so many are so out of touch. I making sure my ds is well aware how lucky and privileged he is

No one pays 40% tax

It’s 40% tax over £50k you pay 40%

Which higher than the average wage which is around £31k

*Is it really beyond the realms of possibility to believe that someone who could afford £2500 a month for something couldn’t afford to pay £3000 a month? An extra £6000 a year?

Yet everyone should be up in arms about someone paying £5 a month more NI as it’s “a tax on the poor?”*

Of course i can believe that some people will have to give up the private school. Just difficult to have that much sympathy. Charging extra NI to some will mean a choice between heating and eating. Not the choice between private and state school.

I think getting private schools to pay tax is a fair enough request.

But if we're talking about getting rid of them all together thinking this will better fund the state system, can we get rid of the CofE schools and the grammar schools too! Because despite me paying a high level of tax, my kids won't be able to access them.

@Sweetnhappy1

I think getting private schools to pay tax is a fair enough request.

But if we're talking about getting rid of them all together thinking this will better fund the state system, can we get rid of the CofE schools and the grammar schools too! Because despite me paying a high level of tax, my kids won't be able to access them.

We’re not talking about getting rid of them altogether. We’re talking about businesses paying VAT and not being treated as special cases. Your children could access a faith school or a grammar school if you lived in their catchment area.

I do wish Labour would stop these ridiculous Student Politics initiatives and start talking about what really matters to voters.

People are worried about food shortages, the petrol crisis, the economy, the NHS.

What are Labour blethering on about?
How to choose their leader, Identity politics and attacking private schools.
Their Leader wastes a valuable TV interview turning himself into a laughing stock and their Deputy Leader behaves as though she's still in the school playground.

@Blossomtoes I live 600 metres from a CofE secondary school, my children could walk there in 15 minutes but won't get in. Most places go to church goers, you practically have to live on the same road as the school to get in on an open space. So no, wrong religion, we can't access the school.

But I agree with you on taxation though

I think charitable status is absolutely shocking to be honest. I think taxing private schools is right. It redresses the balance a little.

Mind you, I don’t really think they should exist - I would much rather all children got the same chances and state education was better resourced - and I say that as someone’s whose DC went to a private school for a few years. I always felt a bit bad that our DC were having a much better education than their peers just because FIL could afford it. It just seems wrong. Children can’t help which family they are born into and inequality starts so early and it makes it so hard to change the status quo. I’d fully support anything that levels the playing field a little and gives us, as a country, a better chance of reducing social inequality. Even if it means we, as a family, are a bit worse off.

@ketchupman

I think this would just make private schools even more elitist, as those serving middle class working families would be unlikely to survive the impact of such a tax. If you look at the accounts of charitable private schools, the little money they do make goes back into maintaining the school, no one is "profiting".

But it’s no bad thing if some private schools close - those middle class children would go to the state schools, which would benefit society overall, as it would remove some privilege and level things up. I agree the very top private schools would survive, but it would be a good start, and hopefully shine a spotlight on the surviving inequalities of private schools.

@bingoitsadingo

I don’t really know tbh, I can see good arguments on both sides.

I do hope the maths stacks up though. It wouldn’t surprise me if a 20% increase in fees pushed a lot of extra kids into the state sector. It might end up costing the government more than they make back from it.

This in spades. We make HUGE sacrifices to go private and couldn’t afford a 20% hike - it’s touch and go as it is, so we’d have to go state, which means no VAT revenue AND the government will have to find the money to educate my children.

But although I wouldn’t vote Tory in a million years, I don’t think they’re going anywhere this side of my kids’ GCSEs.

We don’t need to remove the privilege - we need state schools to be every bit as good so that private becomes pointless.

Too many of the arguments against private come across as suggesting that their high attainment is somehow immoral and should be cut down to match the rest. What’s immoral is that state school attainment doesn’t blow the private schools out of the water.

I do agree that private schools should have their profit taxed, absolutely, but the VAT this is mad, seeing as it’s considerably LESS that it would cost the state to educate those children in the first place.

the VAT this is mad, seeing as it’s considerably LESS that it would cost the state to educate those children in the first place.

Do you have some evidence for that or are you making an assumption?