Slave underclass; No voice, no money, no hope.

[HomeSliceKnowsBest]

Posting for a non Mumsnetter friend...

AIBU to think I am now part of the burgeoning slave underclass in England?

There is no political party which represents my interests or will stand up to the Tory juggernaut, nor does it seem likely there will be one in the near future.

I am stuck in a low pay job with no hope of owning a home nor living in a reasonable quality rental property.

I cannot access help with my increasingly dire mental health as the waiting list is huge.

I live hand to mouth each month, I have no social life or treats as money doesn't permit it and have budgeted down to the last 1p. I do not have the time nor energy to 'take in ironing' , 'do matched betting' etc between kids, work and (badly) running my home.

I will be worked to death, as by the time I am old enough to draw a pension I doubt I will last all that long due to the lifestyle that poverty forces me into.

AIBU to say there is a slave class of people in our population and ask if you think this is deliberate on the part of the Government, to ensure an adequate supply of workers to feed into the machine and earn their peers big money, while keeping us so miserable or strung out on medication that we quietly comply? We are disposable, despised and unheard.
There is not the possibility of working or educating our way out of this situation as there was in the past.
I feel entirely nihilistic and numb plodding through this daily grind for the next 30 years.

clamps down on homes as investment vehicles (and its overseas investors encouraging developers to focus on building luxury flats I'm particularly thinking of).

Whether the Tories will ever offer that is debatable.

They should. I can’t think of anyone from all shades of political opinion who thinks overseas investors buying huge blocks of flats which then remain empty is a good idea.

OP’s obviously struggling, just hanging in there with a child to support.

But what has outraged some of the posters ion mumsnet? The fact that she used the term slave!

This is so typical of what is wrong with society today. People would rather indignantly nitpick over the misuse of one word (OP was quite obviously not trying to insult former slaves) than address the real issues here. That a mother is living on the breadline despite doing what society tells her she should (work full time).

Between working full time, looking after a child and a house when is she meant to study to “better herself”. How does she know she won’t end up like the thousands of graduates in non graduate zero hours jobs.

Not everyone can get or wants a highly paid professional job. Seriously save your outrage for the actual problem here - that minimum wage jobs aren’t enough to live on, and that the basic right of a house for life has been taken away from many by greedy landlords and ineffective governments.

OP - what job does your friend do and how much does she earn?

@ItsNotMeAnymore

Social mobility through education has improved immensely over the last ten to twenty years. It’s still nowhere near good enough but it is better. Education or training is the way out. Unfortunately you need teens to be motivated to work hard and make the most of the opportunities they have. You can lead a horse to water…..

Obviously it’s a whole other issue for some people with disabilities.

The figures say otherwise. Social mobility was much more apparent in the 60s and 70s than now.

@Gingerandlemont

OP’s obviously struggling, just hanging in there with a child to support.

But what has outraged some of the posters ion mumsnet? The fact that she used the term slave!

This is so typical of what is wrong with society today. People would rather indignantly nitpick over the misuse of one word (OP was quite obviously not trying to insult former slaves) than address the real issues here. That a mother is living on the breadline despite doing what society tells her she should (work full time).

Between working full time, looking after a child and a house when is she meant to study to “better herself”. How does she know she won’t end up like the thousands of graduates in non graduate zero hours jobs.

Not everyone can get or wants a highly paid professional job. Seriously save your outrage for the actual problem here - that minimum wage jobs aren’t enough to live on, and that the basic right of a house for life has been taken away from many by greedy landlords and ineffective governments.

Yes because she's not a slave and I think it's insulting to everyone who was a slave and still is today. I'd 1 million times rather be in her place than be part of the Atlantic slave trade, or be trafficked for sex.

Life sucks for a lot of people but we're still lucky to be born here and have the opportunities we do.

Normally I'd agree that people get worked up over nothing online, but no matter how much you dislike the present gov, we have options

I have been greatly saddened by Labour apeing Tory rhetoric about "working people" but Labour do seem to be becoming cleverer.

The Conservatives increasingly look like they represent the interests of very big money and the part of the populace they need to top up their normal vote - i.e. the part who would happily play the role of brownshirts. It's uncomfortable for some traditional conservatives to be in that sandwich so Labour are right to seek to gain their support.

Labour are becoming a little cleverer about reaching the right part of conservative support - the business rates thing is a great move. Right there with the small business person and the self employed - people the conservatives seem to have abandoned tbh as there isn't enough profit in it for them.

Have faith, Labour can't help you at all unless they gain the power to do so.

Ya'lls keep voting Tory though.....

Yanbu OP and those who are voting yabu are simply standing around chanting 'I'm alright jack' while holding their hands over their ears, or, worse yet, simply happy to exploit people in your situation.

@Gingerandlemont

OP’s obviously struggling, just hanging in there with a child to support.

But what has outraged some of the posters ion mumsnet? The fact that she used the term slave!

This is so typical of what is wrong with society today. People would rather indignantly nitpick over the misuse of one word (OP was quite obviously not trying to insult former slaves) than address the real issues here. That a mother is living on the breadline despite doing what society tells her she should (work full time).

Between working full time, looking after a child and a house when is she meant to study to “better herself”. How does she know she won’t end up like the thousands of graduates in non graduate zero hours jobs.

Not everyone can get or wants a highly paid professional job. Seriously save your outrage for the actual problem here - that minimum wage jobs aren’t enough to live on, and that the basic right of a house for life has been taken away from many by greedy landlords and ineffective governments.

Quite. Seems like some people would prefer to be offended (probably on someone elses behalf too) by the use of a word, rather than by the fact that increasing numbers of people are finding themselves in the same position as the OP and it's doubtless going to get worse.

Frankly, I'm offended that your priorities are so clearly fucked.

Other than the word choice, I'm with you OP.

It's scary. You then get people just assuming that benefits or minimum wage jobs pay for the essential bills. They often don't.

I'm sick of it too and it makes me even more depressed.

I am so happy to have got into a social housing place - that's one huge pressure gone and my rent has halved - however it's a bad area and the place is old and has asbestos and repairs are so slow.

I also have terrible mental health problems and I'm on an 18 month - 2 years (GP says) waiting list for help. Can't pay private.

For any other health concerns I have to fight the GP to refer and wait huge amounts of time.

Sick of worrying constantly about bills and no idea how I'll put money in the meter when prices go up.

I'm trying to 'better myself' by taking a short course which will get me into NHS band 2/3, but I'm currently in a battle with Universal Credit as I'm not allowed to do the course by their system. For example if I am in college on one of my 'seek more hours' UC appointments, they expect me to not attend college to attend the appointment or be sanctioned.

I'm totally with you that we have no voice at all. If you say anything, people make excuses about how it can't be that bad, how it must - it just must be something we are doing wrong. It can't be the system that is broken. They then shove some tins into a foodbank collection and get on with their lives.

@SweetBabyCheeses99

I sometimes feel similarly; that society is going downhill etc. But then I ask myself, what year would I rather have been born in if not 198x? Would I rather have been born in another country? I rarely conclude that I would have! And not out of sentimentally, theoretically you get the same family, friends etc. Would anyone else if they could choose?

I agree.

We are the luckiest people on Earth*. I know it doesn't always seem like that but we really are. This is, literally, as good as it gets until we build something else.

• We haven't been invaded for over a 1,000 years. We don't suffer from the most devastating of natural disasters - earthquakes, hurricanes, volcanic eruptions. We have free at the point of need healthcare. We do have a welfare state. We do have pensions. Our government are not chopping off our limbs if we commit crimes, forcing us into reeducation camps if we have wrong thought (well, not yet anyway). There aren't people with guns preventing us from reading the books we want to read or from wearing the clothes we want to read.

Yes, it's not perfect, it could be better but protecting what our ancestors built and, yes, getting the balance of interests between the different classes back to a stable position is definitely a priority.

But, no, I would choose to have been born anywhere else either. I know I'm one of the luckiest people on the planet and I didn't do anything to deserve it apart from being born in the right place.

I wonder if everyone who is offended by the word slave was as offended by the song “I’m a slave for you” or when people use the term “what did your last slave die of” etc.

Feigning offence over nothing is a (mainly middle class) way of shutting down and ignoring legitimate concerns and problems.

I disagree that despite her problems, OP should consider herself lucky to live here. Many other countries may not be as rich as us, but there is a greater sense of community and assistance for mothers. Apparently many that come to the west for the first time are shocked to see homeless people on the streets with no one helping them. Obviously there are many worse places to live than the UK but equally many countries are a lot more compassionate towards those struggling financially.

@Dozer

YANBU to be angry and upset about your economic circumstances, political matters and poor UK mental health services.

YABU using the terms ‘slave’ and ‘worked to death’.

Agree with this.

*I wonder if everyone who is offended by the word slave was as offended by the song “I’m a slave for you” or when people use the term “what did your last slave die of” etc.
*
Using slave as a song title isn't the same as actually thinking of yourself as some kind of oppressed "underclass" of slaves. The song clearly literally stating oneself to be a slave, it has no relation to history whatsoever other than the use of the word

Whereas using it on politics is a proper comparison. Hard to explain, but it just comes across as very ignorant, and as someone else said, ironically privileged.

@Gingerandlemont

OP’s obviously struggling, just hanging in there with a child to support.

But what has outraged some of the posters ion mumsnet? The fact that she used the term slave!

This is so typical of what is wrong with society today. People would rather indignantly nitpick over the misuse of one word (OP was quite obviously not trying to insult former slaves) than address the real issues here. That a mother is living on the breadline despite doing what society tells her she should (work full time).

Between working full time, looking after a child and a house when is she meant to study to “better herself”. How does she know she won’t end up like the thousands of graduates in non graduate zero hours jobs.

Not everyone can get or wants a highly paid professional job. Seriously save your outrage for the actual problem here - that minimum wage jobs aren’t enough to live on, and that the basic right of a house for life has been taken away from many by greedy landlords and ineffective governments.

Exactly. Yes, the language was misguided imo, but the actual point is a valid one but is successfully ignored.

It's cognitive dissonance at it's finest to say that people just need to make better choices, and work harder while also relying on the services provided by those who actually do these jobs, and demanding more and more of them, while insisting that if they all left tomorrow for a better job someone would come along and do it, despite that we're having real issues currently filling those vacancies.

The real problem of course is that people like me now have an education, even a basic one, understanding and access to knowledge, we realise we're having the piss taken out of us and we're speaking up about it, our 'betters' don't really like that because it causes them problems.

There is nothing privileged about a mother who is stuck in a dead end job struggling to survive financially.

How on earth can you think using “slave” in a pop song, for fun and to make lots of money is fine, but get angry when a struggling person uses it to highlight their suffering. Ridiculous.

If you don't like your life, change it. Nobody will help you, unless you help yourself.

Changes can be big or small... whatever suits you.

Better to die trying to change your life than not to try at all!

@Gingerandlemont

There is nothing privileged about a mother who is stuck in a dead end job struggling to survive financially.

How on earth can you think using “slave” in a pop song, for fun and to make lots of money is fine, but get angry when a struggling person uses it to highlight their suffering. Ridiculous.

Tbh errs a difference between using a metaphor in a song vs genuinely thinking you're so hard done by that you are in a slave underclass. Nobody even dismissed her situation, but no, you aren't a slave, and yes, we have social mobility. The real issue is having the information and guidance at hand to know what your entitled to.

Slave is not a swear word, but context and emotional intelligence need to be utilised. Not even saying it's "good" to use it in a song, but it's not really the same is it?

The slave issue is that the OP isn't being trafficked, beaten or raped by her owner, she's not being forced to have children, she gets paid (however little) and she has choices. That may be shit choices but you still have them.

As for countries being shocked about our homeless, where are these utopian paradises where mothers are revered and everything is wonderful? And why would they choose to move away from that to such a hideous country?

No one has mentioned a utopian paradise where mothers are revered, but there are lots of places all over the world with a greater community spirit than the UK. You really don’t need me to name them.

I give up - if you really genuinely think singing about being a slave to sell records is ok, but saying something like “I may as well be a slave because I have no money or realistic options” is highly offensive there is no reasoning with you.

If you google “wage slavery” you’ll see that this is a commonly used to term to describe OP’s situation - being trapped in a low paid job with no reliastic options to escape. Discussions around wage slavery are important because if you are just working to make someone else richer with no quality of life yourself, what is the point?

I realise many on here aren’t dismissing OP’s arguments because she used the word slave. My posts are directed to the posters that are.

There is a worrying trend of working class or financially poor people having their complaints dismissed, because they’ve made a minor (often imagined) faux pas here or there with their language. I think this is why many have become disillusioned with labour - they prioritise being woke over addressing the difficult issues, which are then left to fester and get worse.

Slave is quite obviously an exaggeration but perhaps have a look at how hard some of our poorest in this country are doing it before slamming the OP. Some of our poor are living in dickensian conditions beyond imagination.

Pulling oneself up by the bootstraps... FFS how many of you could "bootstrap" if you were just trying to survive living in that ITV hellhole below?

www.itv.com/news/2021-09-12/britains-housing-shame-shocking-conditions-and-despair-at-a-lack-of-action

www.thesun.co.uk/news/16091926/man-suffocating-mould-faeces-council-flat/

www.the-sun.com/news/3635001/mum-crushed-concrete-ceiling-inches-from-daughters-cot/

On Christmas Day 2020,Fransoy Hewittwoke to prepare lunch for her two young boys. Despite everything, she was determined to make it a special day.

Coronavirus had all but cancelled Christmas for the south of England, but the pandemic was the least of Fransoy’s concerns.

A month earlier, a small but persistent leak in her living room, which she had been reporting to her landlordCroydon Councilfor over a year, suddenly began to spread, taking on a new ferocity.

No longer confined to a small patch of her one bedroom flat, water began leaking from the kitchen ceiling, into the bathroom, the hallway and across the living room. Water cascaded through light fittings, soaking the floors and destroying the family's possessions.

Fransoy’s living room was so sodden and cold, within days it was no longer habitable. She placed buckets, and the plastic bath she once used to bathe her baby boys, under the drips, emptying them every few hours.

The kitchen became plagued with thick mould. Black, furry spores saturating the walls and ceilings, growing on plugs and in cupboards and spreading onto their food. No matter how much Fransoy wiped it away, it soon came back.

She continued to complain repeatedly to Croydon Council throughout November and December. Maintenance workers would sometimes be sent out. They turned off the electricity to their fridge, and the lights in their bathroom and hallway, to prevent electrocution, but they never fixed the leak.

They would have seen the water dripping into buckets around the flat, and walked on the sodden floors, their shoes squelching. They would have seen the mould-infested kitchen and smelt the unbearable stench of damp that hits you the moment you walk through the door of the flat. And yet the leak went unfixed, for months.

So on Christmas Day 2020, Fransoy woke to make lunch for her two sons in this one bedroom council flat. Water dripping around her, she prepared their dinners and plated up, as the boys sat down at a small wooden table in the living room, the steadily-filling baby bath at their feet.

As she handed them their food, water began dripping onto the table. Determined that they should eat Christmas dinner together as a family, and with nowhere else to sit, Fransoy grabbed an umbrella. She held the umbrella above her sons heads, while they ate their Christmas dinners.

END

@Gingerandlemont

There is nothing privileged about a mother who is stuck in a dead end job struggling to survive financially.

How on earth can you think using “slave” in a pop song, for fun and to make lots of money is fine, but get angry when a struggling person uses it to highlight their suffering. Ridiculous.

I think both uses of “slave” are offensive.

And yes a mother stuck in a dead end job struggling financially is privileged compared to an actual slave.