Slave underclass; No voice, no money, no hope.

[HomeSliceKnowsBest]

Posting for a non Mumsnetter friend...

AIBU to think I am now part of the burgeoning slave underclass in England?

There is no political party which represents my interests or will stand up to the Tory juggernaut, nor does it seem likely there will be one in the near future.

I am stuck in a low pay job with no hope of owning a home nor living in a reasonable quality rental property.

I cannot access help with my increasingly dire mental health as the waiting list is huge.

I live hand to mouth each month, I have no social life or treats as money doesn't permit it and have budgeted down to the last 1p. I do not have the time nor energy to 'take in ironing' , 'do matched betting' etc between kids, work and (badly) running my home.

I will be worked to death, as by the time I am old enough to draw a pension I doubt I will last all that long due to the lifestyle that poverty forces me into.

AIBU to say there is a slave class of people in our population and ask if you think this is deliberate on the part of the Government, to ensure an adequate supply of workers to feed into the machine and earn their peers big money, while keeping us so miserable or strung out on medication that we quietly comply? We are disposable, despised and unheard.
There is not the possibility of working or educating our way out of this situation as there was in the past.
I feel entirely nihilistic and numb plodding through this daily grind for the next 30 years.

OP, you sound significantly depressed.

As someone who crosses paths with MH services a lot professionally, I really empathise with your situation. MH services have been chronically underfunded for so long they really only swing into action when someone is an active danger to themselves or others, anyone else just has to queue. When you're already struggling the energy required to fight this just isn't there. But please keep trying.

I think people underestimate how mentally wearing poverty can be when you're in it long term and can't see a way out. I'm well off now but I've been poor to the point of being unable to put the lights on or eat. However, I knew it was only temporary. Even so, the 4 years it took to turn my life around nearly drove me to the edge. I remember sobbing because an old friend asked me to meet for coffee and I couldn't even budget in £2 for that. When that's your daily existence, year after year, it takes a real toll, and even if there is a way out your mental strength can be too run down to search for, find and take the opportunities out.

Please keep trying with MH services and also go to CAB (or your local council can sometimes help). Make sure you're getting every break you can (e.g. Water rates can be as little as £3 pcm if you qualify). It won't change your life but it may give you enough breathing space to take stick and see what you can change. Good luck.

is kept in a trap hmm people are free to make their own choices.

Yes there will always be jobs that pay less than others so less of a budget to play with but that doesn’t over ride personal responsibility if making lifestyle choices that don’t match the salary.

Firstly, you're assuming that the lowest salaries cover the no choice elements of the cost of living (admittedly assuming full time hours here), rent/mortgage, travel to and from work, council tax, water, fuel, food etc - though some of these things can be cut back on like living in a cheaper area or using less gas and electric, there's still a minimum that needs to be outlayed. And some, like council tax you can't cut back on at all.
When what comes in doesn't match what has to go out, as a minimum, that's where things start going wrong.
You're assuming that anyone on a low income can't manage because they choose a lifestyle they can't afford, which although no doubt true in some cases, isn't across the board and a forgone conclusion, unless of course you need to think that to justify why people working full time hours for minimum wage (it's not a living wage if people can't live on it, calling it that doesn't make it so) can't make ends meet and as I said in my first post, it's easier to blame someone for that, citing 'personal choice' than look at the actual reasons why it's happening.

Students, second household earners, those wanting a second job etc may be happy to pick up the hours so we wouldn’t be left with no workers just because some need to earn more money,

🤔 So where are all these students, second household earners and people wanting a second job? Why aren't they filling the 77,500 hospitality vacancies out there? Or the 76,000 hgv driver vacancies? Or the 112,000 (and rising) social care vacancies?

We have a well publicised shortage in those industries, and not caused by Brexit or Covid, those things have drawn into focus the shortfall already there and sent it from just about managing to there now being a difference seen in terms of service provided.
People are doing exactly what you suggest and going for the better paid positions because they're on offer..... And this is the result.
That doesn't change the fact that we need the services provided.

I think this is very short sighted perspective. Pay has increased and conditions have improved relentlessly for generations. You may not see much difference in your career, but generation to generation the rates of absolute and relative poverty of households in FT work is the lowest it has ever been in human history. The problem is you want pay and conditions to improve at a faster rate than society is capable of. It’s not easy to level up tens of millions of workers.

Pay and conditions have increased, but then so have expectations on employees and the cost of living, and in some cases outstripped the improved pay and conditions to result in ft working households needing things like tax credits or food banks while companies profit margins either stay the same or increase year on year. It's all about 'the needs of the business' rather than the physical needs of the people who actually keep the business going.
And to boot you get to blame them for not being aspirational enough or living beyond their means, if they don't just put up and shut up like good little skivvies.

A lot of the vacancies in hospitality and other low paid sectors are not being filled because employers are looking for the perfect candidate and there is no compromise regarding experience, hours the candidate can work, many people don't have the correct type of references, especially if they haven't worked for a while. A lot of these jobs expect you to be available 24/7 for what is often 8 hours of work a week so people can't easily get other employment at the same time or childcare. There was a thread recently where this was mentioned a lot.

But having children is going to restrict choices in a lot of jobs. A lot of better paid jobs expect flexibility which of course you can't necessarily have if you have to factor in childcare.

I can understand your current frustration and agree with you about the politics but you are not a slave, longer term you can change your life, it takes time, but you are in control of your destiny unlike slaves. Many of us periods in our lives where we feel we are on a conveyor belt through life with no options but there truly is. Nobody is permanently stuck in any job, it takes time but you can gain skills or qualifications to get you up the job ladder from which you can improve other parts of your life and remember kids are only young for a short time.

20 years ago I thought like you, but with kids in university I look back and realise that life was really tough but it wasn't for ever. I've since got a masters and whilst I don't personally earn a lot I have a job I love

@anothermansshoes

Doctorates in science are funded by government agencies, the places are competitive but on academic ability not parental income. You receive a decent stipend as a PhD student in stem. Exh has 2 funded PhD places each year, he has 1-2 private funded students too, usually overseas and rarely any good

@GettingUntrapped please answer my and a pp’s question about the revolution that you desire.
The super rich will bugger off pdq but there will be lots of rich people left.
Will you organise Stalin style ‘show trials’ or will you just shoot anyone who you think might have more money than you?

@SandysMam

I think there are a lot of posts at the moment egging people on to believe life is completely shit. Your post sounds very dramatic! Sorry you are struggling but writing this kind of narrative will become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Agree.

I few hundred messages repeating your sentiment isnt going to help. By repeatedly telling yourself there isnt any point, you are going to be worked to death, and there is no choice in the matter it definitely doesnt help.

I'm not saying everything will be fine or easily fixed, but by having a negative viewpoint you're unlikely to take any chances or opportunities that do end coming your way, that may improve your life even a little.

@Maverickess

I too think slave is the wrong term, but I do agree with the sentiment of your post totally.

I've described myself, as a care assistant, as society's skivvy before, because it's how I feel we're treated. I'm not a slave because I don't live under those conditions, but obviously there's an incentive to keep me doing the job I do, and others who do similar jobs under similar conditions, because we're essential to supporting the rest of society. Without the people at the bottom of the ladder holding it up, the whole thing comes down.

Yet, if you bring up you can't afford to live, barely survive on the pay you get, the 'get a better job' brigade start talking about personal choices, and I'd bet some of them rely on the services provided of the low paid to enable them to actually be able to do their better jobs in the first place.

While me, or you OP, getting a better job will improve our individual circumstances, someone else will need to fill the role we currently do under the same conditions, which solves nothing and shunts the problem onto someone else, and when there's no one else, because they don't want to, or can't afford to work under those conditions we start having issues like people not getting care who need it because there's no one to provide it, or empty shelves because there's no one to deliver the food, or not being able to go out for a meal because the restaurant needs to close early due to lack of staff.
So when it starts affecting those who have a voice, suddenly it's a problem, and people demand something is done, so we get things like a rise in NI.
Keeping people in low paid, but essential roles benefits society, and everyone knows this really, but some don't like to admit that. Because we're all in some ways, part of the problem.
The opportunity to better yourself is open to anyone, to a certain degree, but it can't be open to everyone, because then who's going to do the jobs that need doing like driving the trucks or caring for the elderly if everyone has moved on to a better job?

Of course there's an incentive for government and society to keep us where we are, it means that these services are provided as cheaply as possible, yet they are still available to be used by those who need and want them, that in someway benefit their own lives.
It's far cheaper and simpler to keep people in a trap, and blame them for it, than to look at the overall problem and increase the pay and conditions for these jobs, and acknowledge that they're essential and necessary for society to function.

My sister used to do jobs like this. Shop worker. Fast food. Wprked in a factory while studying and then moved on.

There are people who use these jobs as the starting blocks for their future career. And there will always people who are able to pay their way with these jobs, those still living at home, or studying.

You are very unreasonable to use the word slave and to consider your life akin to that of a slave

This.

@PlanDeRaccordement

It's far cheaper and simpler to keep people in a trap, and blame them for it, than to look at the overall problem and increase the pay and conditions for these jobs, and acknowledge that they're essential and necessary for society to function.

I think this is very short sighted perspective. Pay has increased and conditions have improved relentlessly for generations. You may not see much difference in your career, but generation to generation the rates of absolute and relative poverty of households in FT work is the lowest it has ever been in human history. The problem is you want pay and conditions to improve at a faster rate than society is capable of. It’s not easy to level up tens of millions of workers.

In 1999, the median average salary was £17,803. Adjusted for inflation, that is equivalent to £41,508 today.

n2013dollars.com/uk/inflation/1990?amount=17803

The median average salary in 2020 was £31,461, so almost £10k pa less, in real terms, than it was 21 years ago.

www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/

I find it hard to see how pay has improved at all when it's now worth barely 75% of its 1999 value.

I think we're in a race to the bottom, and while "slave underclass" may be hyperbole, there's no doubt that people at the lower end of the income scale have far fewer choices and options than the well-off.

It’s not easy to level up tens of millions of workers. It's not, but we're not even trying at the moment - the inequailty in earnings, having lessened from the 1950s to the 1970s, has now gone into reverse.

social mobility is dead in the UK unfortunately.

Not true at all. Many working class kids go to university now.

My sister used to do jobs like this. Shop worker. Fast food. Wprked in a factory while studying and then moved on.

There are people who use these jobs as the starting blocks for their future career. And there will always people who are able to pay their way with these jobs, those still living at home, or studying.

Which would be fine, if these jobs were actually being filled, only as I pointed out in a pp, they're not.
Students or people using a low wage job take their experience with them, leaving a knowledge and experience gap. People like me are needed to fill that gap, especially as customer and service user expectations are so high, and getting higher.

Do we really want the care industry filled with people who are using it as a stepping stone, and are in it to earn their way while studying and have no aptitude or real interest in the role, or are standards better when there are people with training (all be it the bare minimum) and years of experience to fall back on within the industry to provide a backbone?
Would you rather your elderly and vulnerable family member be cared for by someone who has a genuine interest in the job, is in it for the long term and committed, or a student who took the job because they need the money while studying something else and although they may be kind, or provide the actual basic care, has no interest further than doing it to get the wage at the end of the month?

The problem is while being demanded to provide the best service possible, they're also not being valued at all.
You can't expect to have excellent services provided by experienced and committed people, but then pay them a pittance and tell them it's all their own fault they don't earn enough to live on because they lack aspirations to do better.

If people aren't willing to invest in better services, they need to lower their expectations of what they're going to get from those services.

Not true at all. Many working class kids go to university now.

And what? Graduates end up doing jobs way below their education level and spoiled employers want cleaners to have a degree. The times when a degree guaranteed a respectable job are long gone.

@Maverickess, you have really hit the nail on the head.

It's shocking how badly rewarded some of the most vital jobs are.

The problem with pointing out that any given individual could improve their lot by not having children, or gaining education or moving just doesnt engage with the idea that these are essential jobs that someone has to do and a lot of them are jobs that you want people to stick at for years not do as a stop gap before their real job. Someone working full time as a carer should be able to afford housing, heating and eating, clothing, transport and the odd little treat.
The gap between the have and have nots shouldnt be so great.
Its not slavery though but enough have explained why now.

Zero hour contracts are really abusive.

Although I disagree with the term slave, I think OP has a point. I agree that social mobility is more limited now due to house prices, zero hours contracts, salary reductions in real terms etc. And all the while the rich get richer.

I was pretty poor when I was young and working as a care assistant. However, by the late nineties I was employed in the homelessness sector as a support assistant. I earnt 14k, with a full time hours contract and a pension, this was enough to buy a small house, in a cheap area of the city I live in, with a 100% deposit. From there i was on an upward trajectory. The same would not be available to someone with the same circumstances now, unless, possibly in areas where house prices are cheap. Even then, you would need a deposit now.

A couple of pp have spoken about choice and moving to a cheaper area. How does that work for someone that lives hand mouth - removal costs, deposits and first months rentals not to speak of finding a job.

Completely agree OP.

I also hate the idea that to get out of poverty everyone should study or “better themselves”.

We desperately need cleaners, shop workers, care workers, factory workers etc. Why not pay them enough to live a decent life and put some pride back into these jobs, instead of trying to pull everyone out of poverty by making them a “professional”?

@LakieLady
In 1999, the median average salary was £17,803. Adjusted for inflation, that is equivalent to £41,508 today.

No, your calculations are off as you’ve accidentally put in 1990 instead of 1999-. £17,803 is equivalent to £31,648 today. See screenshot.

So correcting your statement...

The median average salary in 2020 was £31,461, so almost £200 pa more, in real terms, than it was 21 years ago.

www.statista.com/statistics/1002964/average-full-time-annual-earnings-in-the-uk/

I find it hard to see how pay has improved at all when it's now worth barely 75% of its 1999 value. Its actually worth a bit more and that is despite an economic crisis at the halfway point.

I grew up in poverty but found my way out through education. I lived on very low wages for a few years, I would have been better off on benefits but didn’t want to live like that.

One thing is that you mentioned dcs (pl). I would never have had my dds until I had been able to get secure housing etc. Life is tough but it doesn’t mean you don’t have to take personal responsibility for yourself

OP - I'm going to set aside the inappropriate use of the term 'slave' as plenty of posters have jumped on that.

There is a huge problem in this country - the cost of living has risen far in excess of the rise in wages. Particularly rents, largely as housing is now prioritised as an investment vehicle rather than a basic human need for adequate shelter.

Coupled with the shortage in social housing, the erosion of employee rights, the rise in insecure, low paid work (eg zero hours contracts) - we now have millions of people who cannot afford to feed their families, despite working long hours and living frugally.

But some will forever parrot the Thatcherite mantra of 'if you work hard you can have a nice life'.

For a start, how about the government taxes companies and private wealth fairly and clamps down on homes as investment vehicles (and its overseas investors encouraging developers to focus on building luxury flats I'm particularly thinking of).

Whether the Tories will ever offer that is debatable.

You aren't a slave and as much as your situation may suck, you have options.

You can go to college or take out a loan for university. If you're as poor as you say, you'll get the maximum, and won't pay it off in full.

Sorry but I am another one eye rolling at your terminology.

I sometimes feel similarly; that society is going downhill etc. But then I ask myself, what year would I rather have been born in if not 198x? Would I rather have been born in another country? I rarely conclude that I would have! And not out of sentimentally, theoretically you get the same family, friends etc. Would anyone else if they could choose?