To think that 'eat less move more', everything in moderation and CICO is total bollox?

[Honestopinion23]

CICO stands for calories in vs calories out by the way.
I often read the weight loss section on here. Every day there are people embarking on any number of diets and body overhauls and I reckon about 95% of them are unsuccessful. Calorie counting, shake diets, you name it, people always gain the weight back before long. Even celebrities who seem to have done well with weight loss eventually gain it back, e.g. Pauline Quirke. I am watching that new amazon show with Melissa McCarthy and she is also back to being around the same size she was before starting her weight loss. Lisa Riley is another one who lost a lot of weight and most of it is back now. Clearly it's not working and people are making money out of telling fat people that they can be thin if only they want it bad enough or try hard enough. The scientific research shows that once you are morbidly obese, you have an absolutely miniscule chance of getting to and maintaining a normal BMI without surgery. Yes, there will no doubt be people popping up here saying they did just that but you are the exception.

The idea that if you just eat less than you burn is also flawed when a) your body adapts to lower amounts. For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.

If I was morbidly obese, I would ditch all the dieting crap, admit that I couldn't fix it and have surgery. I see so many dieting plans just blame the dieter for 'failure' when they're trying to do something impossible. If I was stage 1 obese or overweight, I'd go low carb no-processed for life because I think that is the only thing that switches off the hunger signals in the brain.

@lazylinguist

Someone upthread said 'Well what's the answer then?'. I think the answer is to stop ever doing calorie restrictive diets and just try to eat as little sugar as possible and avoid processed food, especially carby ones, as much as possible. Don't restrict overall food, and eat enough at meal times to fill you up. Accept that weight loss will be sloooow. Basically follow the advice in 'Why We Eat Too Much

I think that a good simple piece of advice is 'Cut out sugar and flour'. We pretty much will all drop a bit of weight at least if we do this for a week or two (other than those who barely eat those things anyway, but those people are in the minority by far)

Sugar and flour are 2 of the top 3 agricultural big players in our economy though (along with milk), so it's highly unlikely that the government will recommend that we stop eating them. It's a mess, and there's no wonder we're so unhealthy with this dynamic going on.

My other issue is the speed at which I eat. I inhale my food. I think it's because I grew up in a big family in the 80s and whilst we were well fed, it was just 3 meals a day, no snacks provided (except the sweets I bought with my pocket money). And if you didn't eat your dinner there and then, there was a chance big brother would wolf it down.

I wonder if eating too fast contributes to weight gain?

[quote TheFoundations]@lazylinguist

Someone upthread said 'Well what's the answer then?'. I think the answer is to stop ever doing calorie restrictive diets and just try to eat as little sugar as possible and avoid processed food, especially carby ones, as much as possible. Don't restrict overall food, and eat enough at meal times to fill you up. Accept that weight loss will be sloooow. Basically follow the advice in 'Why We Eat Too Much

I think that a good simple piece of advice is 'Cut out sugar and flour'. We pretty much will all drop a bit of weight at least if we do this for a week or two (other than those who barely eat those things anyway, but those people are in the minority by far)

Sugar and flour are 2 of the top 3 agricultural big players in our economy though (along with milk), so it's highly unlikely that the government will recommend that we stop eating them. It's a mess, and there's no wonder we're so unhealthy with this dynamic going on.[/quote]
I agree. I was in a cafe last weekend and realised there was nothing I could eat, everything had sugar or flour or both in it.

As a PT I'm not alone in despairing of this too OP. Back in the days long ago when I earned six quid an hour as a gym rat, we'd still all be spending our time reading science articles and giving super useful advice to our clients. Tbh it was worth it as the 5% that followed our advice to the tee (hard to do) made life changing transformations. All the rest who just chose a random diet never got anywhere (not slagging off specific diets, they work for some).

But yeah, if we could teach basics of biology and the science behind why diets don't really work long term in schools, and what you should do instead, we'd be a phenomenally healthier nation.

Honestly, it's impossible not to lose weight if you cut out wheat (forces you to say no to pretty much everything carb rich), add high quality protein and fiber to every meal, lots of veggies, eat every 3 hrs, take vits and minerals and a probiotic, loads of water, minimal alcohol and any form of exercise every day. Don't go super low low carb, just low-medium (else you end up super angry, tetchy and finding the eating unsustainable). And a cheat meal once a week.

Eat like that long term and you'll lose weight for sure. If you're Metabolism has slowed through endless dieting etc, do strength work every day. It's like adding coal to a fire, speeds up the burning of Cal's.

Don't go super low low carb, just low-medium (else you end up super angry, tetchy and finding the eating unsustainable

That doesn't happen to everybody. Speak for yourself. Many people do brilliantly on keto/very low carb, losing weigh, upping their health, and feeling much better than they ever knew they could. I'm not saying it's for everybody, but nothing is,. including your assertion above.

@pelosi

I agree. I was in a cafe last weekend and realised there was nothing I could eat, everything had sugar or flour or both in it

Yes, it's terrifying. I had the same experience the other day in a corner shop. Even the crisps have got sugar in them. I couldn't see a single flour and sugar-free snack. Foods causing ill-health are ubiquitous. You have to hunt to find things that promote health.

You will lose weight if you eat less.

You will maintain your weight if you eat the correct amount of food regarding how much exercise you do.

As you get older this changes slightly. Therefore you adjust your food intake.

@Thatsjustwhatithink

You will lose weight if you eat less.

You will maintain your weight if you eat the correct amount of food regarding how much exercise you do.

As you get older this changes slightly. Therefore you adjust your food intake.

Helpful.

Next tip: addicts, you just need to say no!

I know plenty of people who have done keto. None of them managed it long term and it has it certainly isn't without issues.

www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/weight-loss/in-depth/the-truth-behind-the-most-popular-diet-trends-of-the-moment/art-20390062

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7480775/

Keto is quite different from low carb though and I wouldn’t be able to do it for long at all. You can have nearly 3 times as many carbs on low carb diets as you can on keto and actually anything under 100g carbs is considered reduced carb. Lots of people have eaten this way for years.

TheFoundations comment is what I disagree with regarding keto.

Many people do brilliantly on keto/very low carb, losing weigh, upping their health, and feeling much better than they ever knew they could. I'm not saying it's for everybody, but nothing is,. including your assertion above

But, most cultures in the world don't eat low carb. For example, in most Asian cultures, their diet is rice-based with vegetables and a little animal protein. Many African cultures too eat a traditional grain-based diet, so even though i understand why people say low carb is good for losing weight, it doesn't really make sense to me, because that isn't the way people have eaten for a very long time.

But, most cultures in the world don't eat low carb

I agree. MN is obsessed with low carbing. It isn't the magical solution to weight loss on a long term basis. CICO work well for me.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537084/

@Taiyo

But, most cultures in the world don't eat low carb. For example, in most Asian cultures, their diet is rice-based with vegetables and a little animal protein. Many African cultures too eat a traditional grain-based diet, so even though i understand why people say low carb is good for losing weight, it doesn't really make sense to me, because that isn't the way people have eaten for a very long time.

Maybe not keto but there are plenty of countries that eat a diet that’s naturally fairly low in carbohydrates. The Mediterranean diet has been viewed as one of the healthiest in the world for example. I think some people think that low carb is stuffing yourself with meat all the time. It’s not.

@Mercurial123

TheFoundations comment is what I disagree with regarding keto.

Many people do brilliantly on keto/very low carb, losing weigh, upping their health, and feeling much better than they ever knew they could. I'm not saying it's for everybody, but nothing is,. including your assertion above

You are saying that keto hasn't helped lots of people?

What are you basing that on?

I'm not being a dick, but the Mediterranean diet isn't a low carb diet, in fact, it is a carb-based diet with lots of vegetables and a little protein, the same as many Asian diets.

There's a big difference between eating a traditional diet high in certain staple, minimally processed grains and/or carby tubers etc and eating a Western high carb diet though, imo. The main reason low carb diets are effective for a lot of people (until most of them fall off the wagon and put on more weight, presumably) is probably not really that it prevents them eating yams, rice, oats etc. It's that it cuts out crisps, biscuits, chocolate, pastry, industrially-produced bread, sugary drinks etc.

I'm in my 60s, 5'2" and a life-long dieter. At 18 I was around 10 stone, so about 1-2 stone overweight and that was my story for decades. Various diets worked, and as every dieter on here will know, any diet works if you stick to it, but we don't and it goes back on.

About 4 years ago I went up to 11stone, then lost 2.5 stone using a combination of CICO, and low-carbing, logging everything on MFP, and have kept off the weight since, more or less. Gained some pounds in Lockdown but have made a concerted effort and lost it.

It's not easy to maintain but do-able and takes effort, every bloody day!

@Taiyo

But, most cultures in the world don't eat low carb. For example, in most Asian cultures, their diet is rice-based with vegetables and a little animal protein. Many African cultures too eat a traditional grain-based diet, so even though i understand why people say low carb is good for losing weight, it doesn't really make sense to me, because that isn't the way people have eaten for a very long time.

You don't understand because you don't understand the difference between the carbs. Refined carbs have already had done to them what the body would have to spend energy doing to them in the diets you've detailed above. Think how hard the body would have to work to turn an ear of wheat into flour. It would be so hard and for so little reward that we'd give up and spit it out. This 'making it easy for the body' is what's at fault. That's why 'whole foods' are healthiest; because your body will tell you if it can get enough nourishment out for the effort it puts in.

Processed carbs take away our body's ability to make this judgment, and the body is a lazy and greedy thing. If it can get energy for little effort, it will. It will be desperate to do so - that's why, when you show it that there's sugar around, it'll keep saying 'Give me more! Give me more!' until you convince it that there's none left by going without for a few days.

There's nothing complicated here.

because that isn't the way people have eaten for a very long time

People didn't eat processed carbs for a very very very long time, and they weren't overweight. Then they started eating processed carbs quite recently, and are suddenly struggling with fast-rising obesity problems (and many other health issues)

Which bit don't you get?

The shear availability of food, particularly cakes, pies, pasties - mostly made with hydrogenated fat etc, doesn't help. All the above, along with calorie-laden syrupy coffees, are usually eaten in additional to the usual three meals a day.

Killing time and people watching at a mainline station recently - so many food outlets selling huge stodgy subs, pastries and so on. At one time a snack for the train would have been a KitKat or a packet of crisps.

@lazylinguist

There's a big difference between eating a traditional diet high in certain staple, minimally processed grains and/or carby tubers etc and eating a Western high carb diet though, imo. The main reason low carb diets are effective for a lot of people (until most of them fall off the wagon and put on more weight, presumably) is probably not really that it prevents them eating yams, rice, oats etc. It's that it cuts out crisps, biscuits, chocolate, pastry, industrially-produced bread, sugary drinks etc.

Yes, and the cravings for latter, which may be induced by the former, which would explain why we ought not to eat the carby tuber type stuff when there's ice cream in the freezer, but it's ok to eat them in the traditional cultures detailed above because pudding isn't rife there.

“For instance, those who have gastric bypass and eat v low calories forever still tend to be overweight/mildly obese because their bodies just can't get to a low BMI and b) you're fighting against intense hunger urges that someone who has always been normal weight just can't imagine dealing with.”

I thought surgery that shrinks the stomach reduces hunger hormones too?

@Taiyo

I'm not being a dick, but the Mediterranean diet isn't a low carb diet, in fact, it is a carb-based diet with lots of vegetables and a little protein, the same as many Asian diets.

Which carbs are they based on?