Don’t know what to say about my best friend’ crappy husbands?

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I have two really close, life long friends who I adore. They are clever, hard working successful women who are wonderful mothers.
My closest friend, we talk every day and have for almost 30 years, doesn’t have a great husband. He’s fine, not actively a bad man, but he is selfish. We are in lockdown, they both work full time, but he states his job is stressful so locks himself in the home office and doesn’t come out, leaving all domestic duties, home school and work to her. We had a wine zoom planned, she couldn’t commit because she couldn’t ask him to put their kids to bed. On a Saturday at 8:30pm.
My other friends husband is the same but he also drinks too much and writes himself off for the next day meaning she also has to cancel plans whenever he is supposed to be supervising the kids, or has to bring them to places because he’s in bed hungover.

These women are not happy or respected by their partners. But they also accept it and want to talk about how annoyed they are with them and how unfair it is. But would never leave them. I find these conversations so hard to take.

My husband isn’t like this. We both do the chores, we both feel completely comfortable when the other has the kids. I think that is normal and how adults should be. We aren’t perfect of course but it doesn’t feel unfair.

I don’t know what to say to my friends when they start complaining. I feel enraged at what they’re putting up with and I find it hard to not say something that would damage our friendship (like: “your husband is a dick!”).

So I don’t say anything and just get off the phone. But then I want them to feel supported. They’ve both invited us to go on holiday with them as families. I do not want to spend time with their husbands and the dynamic that they have as glorified domestic slaves.

AIBU to not be more supportive? I find the way that sometimes groups of women get to the complaining about their husbands part of the conversation very depressing.

YANBU I am in a similar position. It stinks. You’re either wrong for enabling them or wrong for being smugly married

We have some amazing friends that are in shitty marriages or parent very differently to us. I don’t know what the answer is.

According to my dh, the mass complaining about spouses is common. Everyone at his work does it and he is appalled.

Do you think they would ever leave or is this their life forever more? I’d be horrified if my Dh behaved like the two you describe.

I would feel and see it exactly like you op. In my circle of friends we all have relationships like you describe yours. Basically mutually respectful and fair. I'm not sure I would respond well indefinitely to a constantly recurring problem with no end in sight which no amount of constructive support or even a plain sympathetic ear will ever improve. I think my sympathy and support would expire and I'd have to limit how many times I let them vent to a level I could tolerate without wanting to scream at them LTB!

Don't think I've ever had a conversation where complaining about spouses has been a theme. Occasional one-off somethings, or embarrassing moments maybe but whinging generally definitely not thankfully, that would grow old really quickly

I feel for you. I have a friend whose partner I haven’t met yet as she lives far away but they way she talks about him he sounds dreadful. It’s hard as you have to really regulate what you say. He’s not just lazy but comes off as an idiot - into conspiracy theories.

I was the friend complaining, for years. Don't make them feel ashamed for not leaving (it took me a long time to leave), but don't pretend it's normal to have a shit husband either.

For years I heard "if you're so unhappy, why don't you leave?". But if you grew up on a dysfunctional home, you don't even know what "happy" looks like.

I have no practical advice but my best friend is married to a fucking arsehole and I've had to bite my tongue for years. She has caught him messaging other women twice, he is a work-shy cocklodger who does the absolute bare minimum in every aspect of his life, and he speaks to her like shit about her weight/appearance/mental health issues.

He was deported because he was literally too lazy to check the dates for his visa renewal (I'm not even joking, he just guessed at the deadline and got it wrong) and she gave up a successful, well paying career to follow him to his home country and work for peanuts.

She texts me to complain about him all the time and I just want to scream that she's throwing her life away for a complete waste of organs.

It does feel like you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. They make comments about how I’m lucky, or my husband is such a great husband. He is a good husband! But so should every husband be. It’s a bit like blinders are on: oh she has a great husband, she’s so lucky rather than what it should be: my husband is being shit and he could do better because look, other husbands manage to! I do know other good husbands too, by the way. My brother in law and own brother do their share, there are examples around us that prove I haven’t found a rare unicorn.
And they say things like: he doesn’t gamble or abuse me, he’s a good man. But how is that an acceptable minimum?! That’s not a good man, you’ve just basically said he’s not an addict or a criminal. He also doesn’t have basic respect for you or your time or career.
Sorry, these are all the things I’d like to say directly!!!
This week I said: “have you said what you’ve just told me to him?” She said: “he would just get mad”. What do you say to that? Ive suggested some feminists to follow on Instagram. I don’t know what else to do.

I just suggested they could benefit from counselling. I said I can tell she hasn’t been happy for a while and they might need help to communicate. She didn’t say anything but there wasn’t a blow out either.

I don't know why people get angry with these women. They're capable of making decisions and they've made them. If it were my friend (and it has been!), I would say, if you're not happy leave him because he is a selfish arse. If she chooses not to do that, I would say, I've given you my advice so I don't want to discuss your husband or marriage anymore. Then you have to let it go. Intelligent, grown women are responsible for their own lives. Of course if they later approach and need support to leave, I'd be there to help as much as I could.

I think it's not as simple as why don't they just leave.
Be happy that you're not in that relationship.

I have a friend whose partner I think is abusive - sits around at home whilst she does everything, discourages her from working then calls her ‘lazy’ and occasionally cheats then blames her. it’s awful for her self esteem, but ultimately she’s made her own decisions about the relationship. I think there has to be a point where you step back, or just listen rather than giving opinion - to preserve your own friendship as much as anything else. However I think you’d be right not to go on holiday with them.

Agree with parrotonthesofa. There might be alot of reasons they cant easily leave. I think you need to be patient with listening to the stories. One day they might get the courage to leave but they obviously dont have the strength right now and its easy to say from the outside looking in what someone should do when you haven't walked in their shoes.

The thing is though so many men have grown up in a world where their rights have been deemed more important than women. So yes there are men around who do their fair share but there are probably more men around who don't. Why are we blaming women for this? Yes, you could say well it's up to them to leave but the reality is if women ever want a relationship or a family then a huge majority of them in society will end up putting up with this behaviour.

Also, sometimes the behaviour only becomes more amplified once children are brought into the mix or perhaps these decisions have been made at a young age when they haven't had much guidance in life. Once children come along it isn't easy to leave for all kinds of reasons. Then, what happens if a women does leave, she is the one facing the stigma of being a single parent and let's face it her practical situation still wouldn't be much better either.

We can blame women all we like for putting up with this, is it really their fault though if they try to work through these situations and the men choose not to corporate. For most women it is a lose lose situation.

Men doing their fair share shouldn't be seen as lucky, but unfortunately in the world we live in it is.

Just listen to your friends. That's what friends are for. Even if you have heard it all before. One day they maybe the ones who are picking up the pieces in your life.

Firstly, do not go on holiday with them! Maybe saying “no” to that is the way to open a conversation about the relationship? I agree it’s not as easy as saying “Well, just leave him” but there’s something about helping them to see that it’s not that there’s no choice, and that staying, or not forcing the issues with their partners, constitutes a “choice” in itself. And of course, it’s up to them: they may each feel that the reasons for not leaving (kids, money, somewhere to live) far outweigh the reasons for doing so.

The constant complaining would wear me down, OP. Keeping communication going is a way of making sure either/both of these women feel supported if they decide to make big changes/LTBs but it depends how long you can stand it. YANBU.

I’d be tempted to go on the holiday just to see if the husbands behave as selfishly as they have always done and so somehow your equal relationship throws theirs into sharp relief. The scales might just fall away from somebody’s eyes. Might not be the most fun holiday ever though and would use up valuable leave.

When I started going to baby groups I was utterly shocked and the amount or women that have to put up with that crap. My husband was working and keeping me alive at the start of parenthood.
He works long hours and I do most of the chores but I work less I had an accident recently and couldn't even dress myself for weeks he had done everything.

I remember really struggling with this and I think one day I just said why do you do it all?
I've worked with women ehos husband done even give them a birthday card but except this on their bday
I know women who can't go out because their husbands can't be with the kids.
If I was you I'd say look I hate this you are my best friend and I can't take how u are being treated be honest its so tough

This is such an interesting thread. I am in process of separating from my husband who is very much like your friends DHs but likes to put on a different public persona.

For the sake of the kids we are being amicable (she says through extremely gritted teeth) and not saying anything negative about each other.

Our wider friendship circle/acquaintances are 'shocked and sad' and will 'be there for both of us' etc etc. And just can't believe it.

My close friends that I have confided in, and know the truth of it all, are overjoyed and being so emotionally and practically supportive, I feel more loved/safe/held/protected than I have in a long time.

OP I know the moans from your friends are hard for you to hear. But the longer you are a shoulder to cry on, you are giving strength and support which will hopefully build for your friends like it did for me.

Good luck.

They make comments about how I’m lucky, or my husband is such a great husband. He is a good husband! But so should every husband be

I've had the lucky comments made to me too. I just respond along the lines of "it's nice you think that, but I think it's more that some people are unlucky. I've just got a husband who does his fair share"

Yanbu by not being more supportive there isn’t much you can do except as another pp said ; maybe rephrase the “ why don’t you leave” to “ I would be here to help if you did” .

I am the woman in the relationship. To a shitty Abusive lazy dh. I don’t leave because I feel like I can’t. Kids/finances/ would never escape him properly anyway and would still have constant grief so what’s the point. I’m sure your friends probably WANT to leave and resent it all every day. I will leave once kids have grown up hopefully your friends will too but they most likely feel trapped and that’s why just putting up with it.

I try not to moan about it too much as my friends see it from your perspective- why don’t I just leave. But it’s not that simple.

Your a great friend for caring about them and still listening to it all the time , i can see why it’s irritating from your side too

You're not being unreasonable at all.
My oldest, best friend is in an awful relationship. It's really quite draining offering her the same advice every time we speak. I've had to become a little bit more distant recently as I was so worried it was affecting my own mental health and as I'm pregnant I had to put myself and my baby first.
I've told her that she deserves better, that her children deserve better, that my door would always be open for her and the kids to stay as long as they needed, should she need/want to get out in a hurry.
It's so difficult and I can already see the kids picking up on the way he speaks to her.

Sometimes both partners believe this is normal
He works
She does everything else and works
If that’s how you were brought up you’d believe this is normal too

Nothing you can say. Your not a counselor and it's unfair of them to treat you as one. They are being martyrs, they could leave, divorce, whatever but choose not to.

Hubby a workaholic and doesn't spend all way washing the nets and scrubbing the floor then hire a bloody cleaner.

Other hubby goes on a bender. So don't plan any social events the next day.

I think they just enjoy moaning at you. Moaning and complaining is a habit that some don't realize they are doing.

There is an old book called 'feel the fear and do it anyway' by Susan jeffers that describes this exact behavior. Worth a read.

I have a friend who oh is a complete twat who controls her , tbh I don't see her much these days and it makes me feel glad I'm single!
Definitely don't go on holiday with them and next time they complain suggest if they are that bad why are they with them then ? If they are not going to do anything about it then quit complaining.