Don’t know what to say about my best friend’ crappy husbands?

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I have two really close, life long friends who I adore. They are clever, hard working successful women who are wonderful mothers.
My closest friend, we talk every day and have for almost 30 years, doesn’t have a great husband. He’s fine, not actively a bad man, but he is selfish. We are in lockdown, they both work full time, but he states his job is stressful so locks himself in the home office and doesn’t come out, leaving all domestic duties, home school and work to her. We had a wine zoom planned, she couldn’t commit because she couldn’t ask him to put their kids to bed. On a Saturday at 8:30pm.
My other friends husband is the same but he also drinks too much and writes himself off for the next day meaning she also has to cancel plans whenever he is supposed to be supervising the kids, or has to bring them to places because he’s in bed hungover.

These women are not happy or respected by their partners. But they also accept it and want to talk about how annoyed they are with them and how unfair it is. But would never leave them. I find these conversations so hard to take.

My husband isn’t like this. We both do the chores, we both feel completely comfortable when the other has the kids. I think that is normal and how adults should be. We aren’t perfect of course but it doesn’t feel unfair.

I don’t know what to say to my friends when they start complaining. I feel enraged at what they’re putting up with and I find it hard to not say something that would damage our friendship (like: “your husband is a dick!”).

So I don’t say anything and just get off the phone. But then I want them to feel supported. They’ve both invited us to go on holiday with them as families. I do not want to spend time with their husbands and the dynamic that they have as glorified domestic slaves.

AIBU to not be more supportive? I find the way that sometimes groups of women get to the complaining about their husbands part of the conversation very depressing.

Can I drill into that a bit TintinIsBack ? If a friend merely pointed out that her home life was different from yours, so she wasn't quite sure what to say about yours, you would think you had a lost a friend?

Do you expect all your friends' lives to be exactly the same as yours?

Do you expect friends to agree with you unwaveringly and back you up on everything you think and do, even when you're obviously wrong, never questioning gently why you might have made a particular choice? (This seems to be a common model of friendship, the 'you're so right', 'your bubz your rules' type) but I don't think it's actually very friendly, supportive or helpful.

Do you recognise that if you don't know that her life is different from yours and how, you're in no position to be a good friend to her? You can't listen openly and offer thoughts on her situation, because you'll only really be talking about your own. You might do unhelpful things like calling her lucky, when she wants to vent?

In both cases, a bit of listening and understanding, a bit of critical commentary, could be helpful, couldn't it?

I find that people like OP's friends, miserable people generally, become very self-absorbed and only able to talk about themselves. They become a drain, not a friend.

I know plenty of women that do more than their share of home stuff, but for a man to refuse to get involved at home to the point where they wont put their own kids to bed once a week is genuinely awful! And it shows how downtrodden she is that she thinks that women who are with men that do this kind of thing are 'lucky'.

I'd be honest about the holiday. No you dont want to go and live with someone even for a week that refuses to do his share as you will struggle not to say something and you dont want to fall out. Or from what she has said, she will be doing everything and you wont even see her so what's the point. Or the way she has described her husband at home has put you off etc.

I think telling people to leave wont work. Asking questions might though. How do you feel about that? Do you think thats fair? How do you think the kids feel about their dad never putting them to bed / treating their mum like that? What do you think they are learning about relationships? Have you looked into benefits / maintenance calculator/ solicitor in case you ever do decide to leave? How do you think your life would be different if he wasn't around etc? Not all at once but if the subject comes up.

Same here. I go out for dinner with my friends and they start the husband bashing part of the evening and I can't join in because I have nothing to complain about, my DP is wonderful, helpful, kind and caring. I find it awful they put up with such crap from their husbands.

It’s definitely a can’t do right situation but be careful that they aren’t using the DHs as an excuse to cancel at short notice. I’ve seen friends do this to other people, they say ‘oh I’ll just say my husband can’t look after the kids’ and then it into a bit of a useless DH joke. If you know they are genuinely lazy rubbish DHs I just talk about ex’s I’d ditched for being the same or other mutual friend who have a crap DH so I’m sympathising without mentioning my DP.

Go on holiday with them and shame the bastards every time

Sounds like a crappy situation for your friends. I guess my friends circle is very lucky in that they all have great supportive relationships. Most of my husband and I's closest friends are mutual and are couples so we'd hang out in groups and go on double dates and weekends away often. I guess we just gravitate towards people similar to ourselves. I'd be very good friends with most of my friends husbands. I would find it really awkward if either side of one couple started bashing the other.

I would suggest reading about motivational interviewing to help you in your interactions with your friends. There are videos on youtube.
Your friends sound pre-contemplative, they are not even thinking about taking action and feel hopeless things can change. At this stage, you just want to try to shift them to the next stage on the wheel which is contemplation (after contemplation, then you will do the strategies to shift them to the next stage and so on. People don't just go from pre-contemplative to action). So how do you get someone to go from pre-contemplative to contemplative? You want to ask them questions with a genuinely curiosity and a non-judgemental voice. For example

• you have said in previous conversations that you would never leave him and that it's not worth bringing the topic up. What would be the signs for you that things were serious enough that you had to talk to him about it, even if that would lead to unrest in the house?
• if you just keep things the way they are, what do you think will happen? Could you sustain it?
• what do you like about keeping things this way? (by contrasting this with the next question about the downside, they may realize the benefits of staying the same do not outweigh the costs). When they say the benefits just agree eg. ""yes, I can see how keeping the house peaceful and getting jobs done properly would be appealing. What else is good about just keeping it the way it is?" When they can't tink of anything else, ask whats not so good about keeping things the way they are?
• do you think that the situation is ok or do you think something needs to change? (If they say something needs to change, follow up with ""what do you think needs to change" if they say ""he needs to help more"" ask "what things does he need to do/how do you think you will approach the conversation with him". Ask don't tell, they know the answers already or will find them if you give them quiet space to think. If they answer "i don't know"" you have actually struck gold! Because you are bringing their awareness to something they have been too busy to pause and contemplate. Don't jump in! reply in a kind voice "if it's something you haven't had time to think about, maybe take a few minutes now to think about what might be a solution?"".
• don't come at them as an expert, have humility, perhaps the decision they make to suck it up IS the best outcome, be open to that but also help them explore it
• ask what they think the next step would be
• ask what the situation has prevented them from doing
• ask what she has tried in the past to rectify the situation (again, don't suggest your own, they are smart and it's much better if you let them come up with solutions. Anything you suggest will be shot down trust me)
• raise awareness and doubt through your questions
• you might even ask "are you worried how observing this status quo may impact your children when they are adults". If they say "I hope my daughter doesn't follow my footsteps and end up in this situation, it's a perfect opportunity to ask "if she did, what advice would you give her".

Good luck.

And I probably said this, but most importantly, don't go into the conversation already knowing the best course of action. She knows herself and her husband better than you do, even if you feel very confident you know what's best for her. As a friend, your job is just to give her space to explore and choose her course.