To panic about the dire state of the UK?

[moveblues]

So... all things considered... aren't we up sh-t creek?
-gas and electricity prices
-covid (masks? Pfft completed Covid mate (in England))
-council tax hikes
-inflation
-food shortages
-Brexit
-petrol

Sounds like something out of a dystopian nightmare. I'm worried dear reader, and 'keep calm and carry on' doesn't help.

Overthehillsandfaraway; I'm with you on that; although not all of us 'Englishers' are like that of course, there are a significant number who fit the description.

I thought Blair was very good up until the war. There's no doubt the NHS and care at home improved dramatically very soon after he was elected.

I'm old enough to remember Harold Wilson and he was excellent in my opinion.

@Overthehillandfartaway

English peoples attitudes of entitlement, arrogance, ignorance, selfishness and general bigotry are coming home to roost .

Us English are taught that the British Empire was marvelous, and that we won two World Wars because we are so much better than everyone else.

Well guess what, we aren't.

The British Empire was responsible for worldwide genocide and pillaging of treasures and wealth.

'We' didn't win any wars. We were part of an allied force . In WW2 we would have had our backsides handed to us by the Germans if it wasn't for the Russians and many other countries.

But still, we think we are so much better than anyone else that we can leave a trading block and all the benefits rhat brought to our shores.

Now we are the laughing stock of the world, and still people fawn over lying, cheating, bigoted corrupt scumbags like Boris Johnson and his equally vile mates.

I'm encouraging my daughter , at a very early age , to be excited by languages and take any opportunity she can to learn them, so when she's an adult she can leave this pathetic, embarrassing country and live somewhere with humanity, morality and opportunity.

And where are these magic lands of humanity, morality, and opportunity?

Presumably not in Europe as most countries are more racist than us, even if not as historically imperialist (although many were but just weren't as successful as us).

So, maybe the Americas? Japan (even though they're quite racist too). China?

Where are these magic countries you plan to send your daughter to?

I never miss an opportunity to remind people of Blair's many faults!

My favourite? I think I'd prefer an actual donkey. They're kind, gentle, but strong. Not bad qualities for a Prime Minister.

I suppose I'd go for a hotchpotch of a coalition of best of the bad bunch.

I would've chosen Johnson over Miliband. Alan Johnson.

I actually think many Brits have become so uber-woke and sensitive that they self flagellate over things that aren't even on other countries' radars.

@wewereliars

Ddraiggoch thanks for your patronising response. We are meant to be a developed first world democracy.

A country in which political decisions mean;

The supply chain cannot get petrol into forecourts, food on the shelves and cannot / will not prevent it's health service from collapsing and where people are having to decide whether they can put the heating on or buy foodmeal is failing by any reasonable standard of good governance.

The supply chain is working fine. Apart from one of BP's contractors who pissed off their drivers with rotten conditions, there is no shortage of tanker drivers. The supply chain is bringing in fuel at the same rate as it goes through people's engines. That some people saw fit to take a dozen Jerry cans to the pumps is a reflection on them, not on the UK as a whole.

Ditto the people who stripped Tesco's aisles of chicken and (last year) toilet roll.

Why would I want to own a car? Awful things. They're part of the problem. Best off without them, that way I avoid the stress of queuing behind 100 idiots at the petrol pumps

Oh, because earlier you said you couldn’t afford one - despite working a 70-hour week.

I’m glad you’re happy with your lot. If you were one of my kids, I’d be fucking appalled that this is all you think you’re worth.

@Pumperthepumper

Why would I want to own a car? Awful things. They're part of the problem. Best off without them, that way I avoid the stress of queuing behind 100 idiots at the petrol pumps

Oh, because earlier you said you couldn’t afford one - despite working a 70-hour week.

I’m glad you’re happy with your lot. If you were one of my kids, I’d be fucking appalled that this is all you think you’re worth.

That was to @DdraigGoch

I live in a suburb of Manchester. The city centre looks like it needs a good power wash these days.
If we're talking about grime rather than litter and vandalism, then that's another reason to step away from the petrol pumps. All that soot came out of exhaust pipes.

I’m just worried about the state of the world. Unlikely to draw lorry drivers in on visas as apparently most of Europe are desperately trying to get more drivers, the world is likely to go into recession prob depression. We aren’t willing to change our habits so the environment is fucked. Racist conspiracy theories eg the new world order run rampant, otherwise intelligent people take a knee one minute, topple a random statue into the river the next whilst wearing cheap throw away clothes made by effectively child slaves and harping on about Jewish banking families . It is a perfect storm for another Hitler or Stalin.

Us English are taught that the British Empire was marvelous, and that we won two World Wars because we are so much better than everyone else.
@Overthehillandfartaway what school did you go to? Sounds nothing like mine.

@TSSDNCOP Love your optimism about apprenticeships. My DS1 has 10 decent GCSEs and 3 ok A'levels.
Desperately wanted to get an apprenticeship in IT. Applied for 15 and no luck. CV was great but because of covid he hadn't passed his driving test and also struggled to get work experience. He's now had to go to uni because the thought of sitting at home was frightening from a mental health POV. An employee for one of the biggest apprenticeship companies in the north admitted to us that there were very few around. And a poster on another thread about apprenticeships said she had been made redundant from a big apprenticeship provider because the posts just weren't there. Maybe if you've got stellar grades or live in the SE decent apprenticeships are plentiful but not up here.

@Overthehillandfartaway

English peoples attitudes of entitlement, arrogance, ignorance, selfishness and general bigotry are coming home to roost .

Us English are taught that the British Empire was marvelous, and that we won two World Wars because we are so much better than everyone else.

Well guess what, we aren't.

The British Empire was responsible for worldwide genocide and pillaging of treasures and wealth.

'We' didn't win any wars. We were part of an allied force . In WW2 we would have had our backsides handed to us by the Germans if it wasn't for the Russians and many other countries.

But still, we think we are so much better than anyone else that we can leave a trading block and all the benefits rhat brought to our shores.

Now we are the laughing stock of the world, and still people fawn over lying, cheating, bigoted corrupt scumbags like Boris Johnson and his equally vile mates.

I'm encouraging my daughter , at a very early age , to be excited by languages and take any opportunity she can to learn them, so when she's an adult she can leave this pathetic, embarrassing country and live somewhere with humanity, morality and opportunity.

And where is this utopia? You’re thinking France aren’t you? With no political or social problems. No history of genocide or empires😂😂. Spain? Fantastic loving history, in the same year they discovered (and subsequently decimated) the Americas they expelled all Jews, China? Or maybe learning Martian?

Until people like the majority on here are happy for their kids to be HGV drivers then this problem will continue with kids continuing to get increasingly useless degrees.

@ColorMagicBarbie those surveys are about attitudes towards POC. So yes UK is ahead of continental Europe in terms of how they regard black people and probably other darker skinned minorities. Probably because we always had commonwealth immigration and British people are used to having Black, indian neighbours and neighbours of all colours. I have lived in Berlin and London; London is more welcoming hands down, its also only 40% white.

I don't think British white immigrants would face much racism in continental Europe so it might be a good place for Brits. Certainly my Scottish friend is far happier in Berlin than he ever was in the UK, given the extremely cheap childcare, secure rental and overall cheaper cost of living. Germans speak excellent English but you do need good german to get a job. But I would not advise black brits to immigrate to Germany, www.trtworld.com/magazine/racism-in-germany-i-will-never-ever-rent-my-house-to-someone-like-you-33025.

@DdraigGoch come up here to one of those small towns just outside manchester. Many many shops shut, countless poor homeless folk congregating in the centre, begging at every traffic light, shabby buildings, ground down people and a menacing atmosphere that is frightening off visitors who just want to spend their money. What is a joke is that we now have 2 out of 3 tory mps who've done nothing.
Funnily enough we visited a lovely market town in north Yorkshire today (Sunaks constituency). Well cared for buildings, affluent looking visitors, hardly any empty shop fronts, lots of nic nac shops/cafes, it could be in a different country and if you never left you 'd think tory britain was flourishing everywhere. So I suppose I can understand why year in year out the tories win.

@ColorMagicBarbie I have a solicitor friend who earns below that of a HGV driver and his parents spent tens on thousands on his education. I do not think he regrets his vocation, he is the kind of person who wants to work from 9-6 daily and preferably from home, with paid holidays. He wants the option to cut down his hours as he grows older. Even he never became a solicitor and stayed a paralegal/legal assistant, i dont think he would want to be a HGV driver as a paralegal would have a life that is closer to what he wants.
I also earn less as a HGV driver and I too want an office job which can accommodate conventional childcare (regular hours of 9-5 pm) as my DH works in an investment bank and has unpredictable hours- a job as a HGV driver would not work with my aspiration to be a mother of 1 child.

Which is why many people go to university. Cos going to university = desk job with regular office hours which usually means more leisure and 5 day workweeks. even admin jobs ask for university degree these days. The top 1% of every cohort who earn the most would be working 7 days a week at a City job but they would also be earning 6 figure salaries, far more than a HGV driver and most trades people. And for most of those City people, it wouldn't be forever, most do leave for jobs with better hours once they grow older.

As a HGV driver, you would be wedded to those hours if you want to earn that kind of money..

@Overthehillandfartaway

English peoples attitudes of entitlement, arrogance, ignorance, selfishness and general bigotry are coming home to roost .

Us English are taught that the British Empire was marvelous, and that we won two World Wars because we are so much better than everyone else.

Well guess what, we aren't.

The British Empire was responsible for worldwide genocide and pillaging of treasures and wealth.

'We' didn't win any wars. We were part of an allied force . In WW2 we would have had our backsides handed to us by the Germans if it wasn't for the Russians and many other countries.

But still, we think we are so much better than anyone else that we can leave a trading block and all the benefits rhat brought to our shores.

Now we are the laughing stock of the world, and still people fawn over lying, cheating, bigoted corrupt scumbags like Boris Johnson and his equally vile mates.

I'm encouraging my daughter , at a very early age , to be excited by languages and take any opportunity she can to learn them, so when she's an adult she can leave this pathetic, embarrassing country and live somewhere with humanity, morality and opportunity.

Your post smacks of ignorance in so many areas. Have you picked up the autobiography of a British slave trader perhaps?

When it comes to genocide, the British were fairly late in the game. Though no one doubts they came in very heave. I cannot think of any other country, race or tribe that has not practiced genocide, rape or pillage in its time. Not one.

@Tealightsandd so you hated blair but comparing him to a donkey is ludicrous. Who do you vote for out of interest ?

Germany is defo not the promised land. 🤣 Didn't an extremely far right party come third in the elections only a couple of years back. Imagine the self flagellation we'd be seeing over here of the BNP became anywhere near as popular!

"I do think we (ordinary people) would do well to switch off our screens and get much more involved in politics, volunteering, campaigning etc. Things don't magically get better: lots of people have to really work to make it happen.

And the people I know who volunteer or stand for election tend to be coping with all the current uncertainties more easily than those who don't. Not just because acting is better than ruminating, but because the positive experiences of others that they gain make them feel more hopeful.

Last council elections, a worrying number of people were elected unopposed and many many seats were left unfilled altogether. This is very sad as local government makes a real difference to people's lives.

Be the change you want to see etc."

👏 👏 👏 thank you!

I live in a city where a lot of people moan online about "the clowncil " but almost none of them will stick their necks out and try to run for office. Many of them won't even campaign for someone else they believe in. So we get the same people, with the same conflicts of interest, and the same questionable decision-making.

From what I've observed as a dirty foreigner, the only vocal Tory voter I know limited her critical thinking during the last election to two factors:

1. what did her partner think about it

2. "here's a catchy meme on social media that supports what my partner told me I ought to think".

Trying to get her to see more nuance than what her meme-posts was a fool's errand, and a lot like trying to speak with my Trump-voting family members back home. I'd find links to documents the Tory government published about the many and several risks of a hard Brexit. She wouldn't read them. I'd do the mental lifting for her and summarise.

Nah.

Her partner was pleased with her, the memes were amusing (I guess? 🙄) and had plenty of 👍 on the socials, she didn't need to listen to me. She was good, thanks.

That long interview that Laura Kuenssberg had with Dominic Cummings was very revealing. Because the architect of the Brexit and BoJo campaigns had very little regard for policy; what he wanted was to win. And to win these days, you don't need to craft fine policy. You only need to manipulate just enough people into doing what you want.

@ColorMagicBarbie

Germany is defo not the promised land. 🤣 Didn't an extremely far right party come third in the elections only a couple of years back. Imagine the self flagellation we'd be seeing over here of the BNP became anywhere near as popular!

Or UKIP?

I didn’t go to a school which taught us how good the empire was. I went to a Catholic school and we were too busy learning about God. Some people have the funny idea that their experience was everyone else’s experience too. Then they moan about how bigoted and small-minded everyone else is

@Hdhdjejdj

I didn’t go to a school which taught us how good the empire was. I went to a Catholic school and we were too busy learning about God. Some people have the funny idea that their experience was everyone else’s experience too. Then they moan about how bigoted and small-minded everyone else is

You didn’t learn about the empire at school?

The government have cocked up time and time again and clearly need to be held to account. In my opinion Labour would only be in with a chance if they vote Andy Burnham in for leader (I know he’s failed before but he’s thought of v highly in Manchester and has advocated for the city/region admirably).
The UK has huge issues at the moment, clearly. Acting as though everyone else in Europe/the world care enough to discuss and laugh at us daily is ridiculous. All countries go through tough times and generally all people feel is sad for those experiencing it and well wishes that things will improve (I speak for myself/friends when you see things such as the covid crisis in Italy at its peak and obviously in more extreme cases Afghanistan, Yemen etc). It’s been a really tough few months but I have to have hope for the future for my children. This attitude of ‘the country has gone to the dogs, we we terrible, everywhere else is better’ isn’t helpful at all for the younger generation. They need hope for the future in order to have the confidence and strength to create the change that needs to happen. Imagine growing up around every adult you know and trust telling you the world was rubbish, our country is crap etc.

[quote onlychildhamster]@ColorMagicBarbie I have a solicitor friend who earns below that of a HGV driver and his parents spent tens on thousands on his education. I do not think he regrets his vocation, he is the kind of person who wants to work from 9-6 daily and preferably from home, with paid holidays. He wants the option to cut down his hours as he grows older. Even he never became a solicitor and stayed a paralegal/legal assistant, i dont think he would want to be a HGV driver as a paralegal would have a life that is closer to what he wants.
I also earn less as a HGV driver and I too want an office job which can accommodate conventional childcare (regular hours of 9-5 pm) as my DH works in an investment bank and has unpredictable hours- a job as a HGV driver would not work with my aspiration to be a mother of 1 child.

Which is why many people go to university. Cos going to university = desk job with regular office hours which usually means more leisure and 5 day workweeks. even admin jobs ask for university degree these days. The top 1% of every cohort who earn the most would be working 7 days a week at a City job but they would also be earning 6 figure salaries, far more than a HGV driver and most trades people. And for most of those City people, it wouldn't be forever, most do leave for jobs with better hours once they grow older.

As a HGV driver, you would be wedded to those hours if you want to earn that kind of money..[/quote]
When I worked on the mixers I was often done by 11:30am in the winter. This more than made up for doing 10hr shifts in summer. When I was in project management it was never 9-5 anyway ad you couldn't walk into a 9am meeting at 9 on the dot.

Plenty of drivers work 4 on / 4 off. That's a decent pattern as, despite the four days being longer than office work, you basically have a mini holiday each week.