To panic about the dire state of the UK?

[moveblues]

So... all things considered... aren't we up sh-t creek?
-gas and electricity prices
-covid (masks? Pfft completed Covid mate (in England))
-council tax hikes
-inflation
-food shortages
-Brexit
-petrol

Sounds like something out of a dystopian nightmare. I'm worried dear reader, and 'keep calm and carry on' doesn't help.

It’s because the MSM in the UK have hammered the message that EU bad. EU immigrants bad. Europe bad. Macron bad. I don’t know when it started but there is a graph somewhere that shows before 2012 nobody cared about the EU, some hadn’t even heard of it then the media campaign started and suddenly it was everything that is shit with your life is the EUs fault.

Also the fuel supply issues predate Brexit.

It's because of whichever idiot decided to sell off our fuel storage facilities in 2013. And an over reliance on other countries for our fuel. It's all very well wanting 'green' energy, but if we're going to refuse to make use of our own plentiful natural resources (gas, coal), than we needed to secure reliable resources before closing it all down.

There are other ways to tackle the climate crisis. Encouraging smaller families through education and access to family planning for example.

People throw their hands up in horror at the prospect of rationed flights (eg. one holiday abroad a year, with exceptions for emergencies). But is that really worse than going without essential fuel for heating, lighting, travelling to work, school, and hospital?

We should go ahead with the Cumbria mine. Good local job opportunities and domestic supply of fuel. We need badly need both of those things

It’s because the MSM in the UK have hammered the message that EU bad. EU immigrants bad.

Well don't worry. That's not the case anymore. They're moved on to The South (Londoners in particular) now. Southerners are 'bad', priced out Londoners are 'bad'.

Patronising people who voted for Brexit whilst ignoring and dismissing the reasons why they voted for it is the very opposite of helpful. It achieves nothing but stirring up further ill informed prejudice against the people who suffered the consequences of exploitation of cheap labour.

What actually needs to be done is to address people's valid concerns and struggles.

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow

I went to Manchester 3 weeks ago. It looked awful in the city centre.

Not the Manchester of my student days at all.

I live in a suburb of Manchester. The city centre looks like it needs a good power wash these days. Actually thinking of moving to North Lancs, as we've just been told we only need to be in the office 2 days a week, going forwards.

To put it simply; successive governments have had the choice whether they wanted to go down the European route or the US route. And the UK appears opted for the latter.

So basically a low tax economy where some have to have two jobs to make ends meet, poor provision of state health care, longer working hours, fewer holidays and workers rights, less regulation, homelessness, not putting the environment or family life to the front of the agenda. It's what people have voted for sadly.

And Macron has his own issues to worry about. The same problems (exploitation of cheap labour and a race to the bottom ideology) plague France. Hence the yellow vest protests (which are still going on) and still fairly strong support for the likes of Marine le Pen.

Maybe, but do they have as many people wandering around during the day off their faces like you see in Piacadilly Gardens?

Piccadilly Gardens is grim. It's so ugly and badly designed. I'm not surprised it attracts the spice heads.

Did you know it used to be a sunken rose garden? Before the town planners of the 1960s wrecked it.

Patronising people who voted for Brexit whilst ignoring and dismissing the reasons why they voted for it is the very opposite of helpful. It achieves nothing but stirring up further ill informed prejudice against the people who suffered the consequences of exploitation of cheap labour.

I don't think I've ever read a single post on MN blaming employers for low wages and our own government for allowing poor working conditions. Its ALWAYS the fault of other low paid workers. Never the fault of those with the power to actually improve pay and conditions. Why is that?

To put it simply; successive governments have had the choice whether they wanted to go down the European route or the US route. And the UK appears opted for the latter.

The future is neither. Asia Pacific (Australia, New Zealand, East Asia) is where it's at.

Also Europe isn't one homogeneous system. For a higher quality of life, look north. Scandinavia, Switzerland (and to an extent, Germany).

It's not an utopia across Europe. Spain, for example. Unemployment rates are high.

If people think all is good in France Germany ect they are seriously naïve

@Kendodd

Patronising people who voted for Brexit whilst ignoring and dismissing the reasons why they voted for it is the very opposite of helpful. It achieves nothing but stirring up further ill informed prejudice against the people who suffered the consequences of exploitation of cheap labour.

I don't think I've ever read a single post on MN blaming employers for low wages and our own government for allowing poor working conditions. Its ALWAYS the fault of other low paid workers. Never the fault of those with the power to actually improve pay and conditions. Why is that?

Several of us have posted exactly that. Of course it's the fault of successive governments going back at least 40 years.Both main parties (and the Lib Dems) are to blame.

My point is that it's ignorant and supremely unhelpful to lazily dismiss and insult working class Brexit voters as 'thick' and 'racist'.

@Againstmachine

If people think all is good in France Germany ect they are seriously naïve

I don’t think anybody does, I actually think how good things are elsewhere is largely irrelevant.

What we have in Britain is a population who voted to make themselves worse off, on top of voting in a government who only care about the top 1%. And then instead of voting in someone who would have changed some of the above, they voted again for someone who only cares about the top 1% but is also a massively incompetent, idiotic liar.

And then worse: race to the bottom to justify all of the above.

@Tealightsandd

To put it simply; successive governments have had the choice whether they wanted to go down the European route or the US route. And the UK appears opted for the latter.

The future is neither. Asia Pacific (Australia, New Zealand, East Asia) is where it's at.

Also Europe isn't one homogeneous system. For a higher quality of life, look north. Scandinavia, Switzerland (and to an extent, Germany).

It's not an utopia across Europe. Spain, for example. Unemployment rates are high.

I’m Aus I’m wondering why you think this

Have you lived there? What are you basing it on

What we have in Britain is a population who voted to make themselves worse off

I've heard Brexit described as the first time in history a country voted to impose sanctions on itself.

@lannistunut

Unfortunately I agree the UK is in a bit of a sorry state just now.

We get what we vote for.

The English love affair with the Tories (and pigheadedness over Bresxit) has led to this.

[quote cardibach]@Pumperthepumper I’ve agreed with most of what you’ve said, but this bit is nonsense: they’ve spent the last decade pointing out what the Tories are doing wrong rather than providing any kind of opposition. That’s what opposition is - pointing out what the government is doing wrong. They’ve also produced several manifestos in that time, so it’s pretty easy to see what they would do instead.
This ‘all they do is criticise the government’ bollocks is as bad as the ‘but Corbyn’ bollocks.[/quote]
A good opposition doesn't stop at merely pointing out where the government is going wrong. A good opposition points out how it would do better. Whenever a shadow minister appears on the TV, they get asked "what would you do?" to which they merely splutter.

I don’t think anybody does, I actually think how good things are elsewhere is largely irrelevant

Seeing as many on this thread are comparing it's relevant.

"A good opposition doesn't stop at merely pointing out where the government is going wrong. A good opposition points out how it would do better. "

Exactly. They present an alternative and mobilise the public around it. Starmer's opposition has been weak and the Labour party appears to be in crisis.

@MarshaBradyo

My close family are Australian (with a couple of New Zealanders too).

I also have family and friends in and from East Asia.

We in the West (Europe and UK) need to lose the Western/European centric focus.

Talking of western centric. Like I said upthread, why the obsession with EU HGV drivers? What's wrong with Afhgan and other migrants? They're not lesser people. They are just as capable as European westerners.

That tweet by Cameron back in 2015. Vote for stability with me or chaos with Ed Milliband.

I'm no big fan of Ed but we could hardly be any worse off had he won.

@Againstmachine

If people think all is good in France Germany ect they are seriously naïve

Of course not, because that would be too simplistic. Countries in Europe are subject to the same difficulties as the UK , managing immigration is a case in point. And an ageing population.

However, it's a question of degree isn't it? You can still get reasonably good free state university education in France & Germany. Germany hasn't decimated it's own manufacturing sector. Public services are generally better because taxes are higher. Health care and public transport are better in both countries than in the UK.

And there are the things that will remain at at a reasonable standard post- Brexit and will start to decline in UK eg food standards, environmental standards, working conditions.

They present an alternative and mobilise the public around it. Starmer's opposition has been weak and the Labour party appears to be in crisis.

This seems apt

[quote Tealightsandd]@MarshaBradyo

My close family are Australian (with a couple of New Zealanders too).

I also have family and friends in and from East Asia.

We in the West (Europe and UK) need to lose the Western/European centric focus.

Talking of western centric. Like I said upthread, why the obsession with EU HGV drivers? What's wrong with Afhgan and other migrants? They're not lesser people. They are just as capable as European westerners.[/quote]
I’m Aus / U.K. (living half in each) and have lived in US too

I’m aware I seem to have lived in parts of the world that are highly attractive to many.

I love Aus but I think the U.K. has many draws and the feel on mn doesn’t reflect that imo. It’s very down on U.K. understandably as we’ve had an incredibly difficult time. If you look to Melbourne narrative atm you’ll find similar. Covid and lockdowns are gruelling