We are now being called bodies with vaginas by one of the top medical journals in the land

[JustcameoutGC]

YANBU the word is woman
YABU shut up VAGINA haver

This will probably get shunted back to the naughty corner. But this is something women need to know. Coming soon to a GP surgery near you. As a vagina haver you may be invited for a cervical smear.

This is what the erasure of women looks like. Splayed on the front cover of the journal read by every medic in the land.

If they truly identify as a woman, they are part of my tribe and I accept them.

What does that mean though? The idea of identifying as a woman is a pretty ethereal concept bound up in unhelpful stereotypes.

If people lie to you it is angering. Especially if they insist the lies are true.

You seem very confused.

I think this is very clear that many people are confused and many feel they can speak on behalf of those demanding inclusive language. There are some here conceding ‘female’ can be used while others on other threads stating that it is not acceptable because some people don’t feel female applies to them (despite us being told by prominent activists and lobby groups that no one is denying their biological sex anymore).

And all many of us want is simply to halt the progression of language we feel is dehumanising to us.

What is no longer confusing as it has become very clear as to the motivation, is the message that some people can demand language that works for them and call it hateful when others make the same demand.

I can tell you how I feel as a woman.

I am biologically female. I have breasts, a vagina, a cervix. I feel comfortable and ‘right’ in my body. I had children. I knew I wanted to be a mother. Not a father, a mother. I wanted to carry a baby in my womb and give birth to it. I like it when people identify me as a woman, I would be sad if someone thought I was a man. I feel a natural affinity for other women, because I have an innate knowledge that they are like me and I am like them. It is also about all the ‘gendered’ activities that the gender critical community focuses on. I like feminine clothes and activities (although I also know that even if i didn’t I would still feel like a woman, just a woman who doesn’t like stereotypically feminine things). I just KNOW I am a woman.

I have enough imagination that I can sort of imagine what It might be like if none of the above were true, and I can imagine how awful that would be.

So wanting to have kids and liking stereotypically feminine things = being a woman?

@Holly60. I have also met trans people through my work and 2 of them were clearly very, very disturbed. Clearly I was privy to their medical history so can't go further than that. I will say that I have very rarely been frightened by my customers/clients but they both scared me. So, yes, my fear of them and what I knew they could do makes me fearful of the current climate where women have to accept that TWAW and that the term women is also being shoved out the door.
And it's men who are doing it!

@Serenissima21

I’ve met trans people through my work and I’ve never seen anything other than vulnerable individuals who are just trying to be true to how they feel at the same time as not putting their head above the parapet and leave themselves open to abuse. I have met a lot of tw too. Some of them were as you describe and, whilst I may be sympathetic, I don't think it is right to force us to believe they have changed sex. They haven't. Why is that the only solution? (And some were very aggressive and obviously had a problem with women. You can't base rules on an assumption of everyone being nice because they're not. Safeguarding is for all males).

I don’t believe transwomen have changed biological sex either. This doesn’t stop me from accepting them as fellow women.

As I stated, my personal experience with trans people has been positive.

I’ve also met some biological females who are aggressive and obviously have a problem with women. I don’t dismiss all women because some may be aggressive, therefore I don’t dismiss trans women based on the same.

I have enough imagination that I can sort of imagine what It might be like if none of the above were true, and I can imagine how awful that would be.

This says it all really. It's all in your imagination. You're imagining what it would be like to not be you, and thinking that would be so awful because you would obviously want to be you.

Little bit narcissistic, there. Can you possibly imagine what it might be like to be a male person who gets off sexually at the thought of being a woman? Because that's what's driving a lot of these attacks on language. Men losing their boners when they're reminded that women don't get boners.

[quote LoislovesStewie]@Holly60. I have also met trans people through my work and 2 of them were clearly very, very disturbed. Clearly I was privy to their medical history so can't go further than that. I will say that I have very rarely been frightened by my customers/clients but they both scared me. So, yes, my fear of them and what I knew they could do makes me fearful of the current climate where women have to accept that TWAW and that the term women is also being shoved out the door.
And it's men who are doing it![/quote]
I’m sorry that you felt scared in your place of work. No one should feel like that.

@beastlyslumber

I have enough imagination that I can sort of imagine what It might be like if none of the above were true, and I can imagine how awful that would be.

This says it all really. It's all in your imagination. You're imagining what it would be like to not be you, and thinking that would be so awful because you would obviously want to be you.

Little bit narcissistic, there. Can you possibly imagine what it might be like to be a male person who gets off sexually at the thought of being a woman? Because that's what's driving a lot of these attacks on language. Men losing their boners when they're reminded that women don't get boners.

and you are accusing me of letting my imagination get the better of me.

The trans women I’ve met just want to identify as women and get on with their lives. If I encounter the situation you are talking about I may revise my stance.

I’m not rigid in my views, they are just based on what I’ve seen and read so far.

Dehumanize, then slave.
Future is bleak

@EdgeOfACoin

I can tell you how I feel as a woman.

I am biologically female. I have breasts, a vagina, a cervix. I feel comfortable and ‘right’ in my body. I had children. I knew I wanted to be a mother. Not a father, a mother. I wanted to carry a baby in my womb and give birth to it. I like it when people identify me as a woman, I would be sad if someone thought I was a man. I feel a natural affinity for other women, because I have an innate knowledge that they are like me and I am like them. It is also about all the ‘gendered’ activities that the gender critical community focuses on. I like feminine clothes and activities (although I also know that even if i didn’t I would still feel like a woman, just a woman who doesn’t like stereotypically feminine things). I just KNOW I am a woman.

I have enough imagination that I can sort of imagine what It might be like if none of the above were true, and I can imagine how awful that would be.

So wanting to have kids and liking stereotypically feminine things = being a woman?

No, wanting to be a MOTHER, feeling comfortable in a female body, relating to men as a member of the opposite sex, liking having sex as a woman, liking it when people call me ‘she’ ‘her’ etc makes me feel that I was born in the correct body.

Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned the fact that I also happen to be quite ‘girly’ of course that is what you would focus on…

I’m some ways when I think about it I wonder if the gender critical community is actually doing more harm to women by insisting that there is nothing more to bring a woman than have female sex organs.

There is so much to my identity as a woman than my sex organs…

The trans women I’ve met just want to identify as women and get on with their lives.

No one has any problem with that. The problem is when TRAs such as yourself push women to the margins, tell us we're bigots for wanting privacy and dignity, call us 'hateful' for not accepting being called dehumanising names like 'bodies with vaginas' and laugh at the very idea that predatory and fetishistic males would abuse self-ID for sexual and/or abusive purposes - despite all the evidence that they very much are doing this.

Therefore if I had all my sex organs removed I think I would still feel like a woman.

@beastlyslumber

The trans women I’ve met just want to identify as women and get on with their lives.

No one has any problem with that. The problem is when TRAs such as yourself push women to the margins, tell us we're bigots for wanting privacy and dignity, call us 'hateful' for not accepting being called dehumanising names like 'bodies with vaginas' and laugh at the very idea that predatory and fetishistic males would abuse self-ID for sexual and/or abusive purposes - despite all the evidence that they very much are doing this.

I’m actually not an activist in any way. Just a woman who accepts decent loving people for who they are and wouldn’t tell someone that they aren’t what they feel they are.

I don’t feel pushed to the margins by that. If you do, then I think that might be something you need to explore.

@Holly60

I’m some ways when I think about it I wonder if the gender critical community is actually doing more harm to women by insisting that there is nothing more to bring a woman than have female sex organs.

There is so much to my identity as a woman than my sex organs…

There is so much to my identity as a woman than my sex organs…

exactly.
and this is what the, absolutely reasonable, outrage is about!

@Holly60

I’m some ways when I think about it I wonder if the gender critical community is actually doing more harm to women by insisting that there is nothing more to bring a woman than have female sex organs.

There is so much to my identity as a woman than my sex organs…

Sorry, did you miss the entire point of this thread? Women are here BECAUSE WE ARE ANGRY ABOUT BEING DESCRIBED AS BODIES WITH VAGINAS.

Did you miss that bit? Or are you engaging in a spot of gaslighting here?

It's WOMEN who are saying this is dehumanising and offensive and we don't want it. And TRAs like yourself who are calling us bigots for protesting and telling us we should accept our dehumanisation and allow ourselves to be reduced to our genitalia because that's what TRAs want.

Try and keep up.

I don’t believe transwomen have changed biological sex either. This doesn’t stop me from accepting them as fellow women.
What you do personally is up to you. Why do you presume you can take away all women's rights to female rape counsellors/doctors/prisons/sports?

I’m some ways when I think about it I wonder if the gender critical community is actually doing more harm to women by insisting that there is nothing more to bring a woman than have female sex organs.
I don't know if you are doing this deliberately or whether you really don't realise what is happening but you have really got this all backwards.

grin and you are accusing me of letting my imagination get the better of me.

Imagination?
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22005209/

@FusionChefGeoff

I wish everyone would go with 'women and transwomen' and 'men and transmen'

Accurate, reality, inclusive

This makes a lot of sense.

Really love the fact that @Holly60 can't see the irony of saying there is so much more to her than her sex organs, on a thread where women are rightly disgusted at being referred to as nothing but a body with sex organs.

Critical thinking not strong in this one.

Ah, I wondered when the comments about hysteria would surface. Dare to express our frustration, yes our anger at the erosion of reality? - it must be something inherently wrong with us. Fight back?-Hysteria. So far, so 19th century. The time for Be Kind is over. You can only push women so far.

I’m actually not an activist in any way. Just a woman who accepts decent loving people for who they are and wouldn’t tell someone that they aren’t what they feel they are.

Aw. Sweet.

If I go into HSBC and tell them I feel like a millionaire are they going to throw wads of cash at me?

If I say I'm 70, does that mean I can claim my state pension already?

If I say I'm Harry Styles' wife, does it make it true?

In no other area of life are we being gaslit into accepting such impossible falsehoods as reality. I don't understand how this emperors new clothes situation has ever got to the stage it has.