We are now being called bodies with vaginas by one of the top medical journals in the land

[JustcameoutGC]

YANBU the word is woman
YABU shut up VAGINA haver

This will probably get shunted back to the naughty corner. But this is something women need to know. Coming soon to a GP surgery near you. As a vagina haver you may be invited for a cervical smear.

This is what the erasure of women looks like. Splayed on the front cover of the journal read by every medic in the land.

A body with a vagina sounds like you are talking about an object eg stickman with a dress

Why isn't women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina considered the most inclusive term to use? It's long but the Lancet is a medical journal so its readers can surely cope with that ?

I will accept a medical journal using terms like this when terms like "bodies who produce sperm" or "bodies who can get visible erections" become mainstream.

@MrsTesfaye

*There ARE people who feel like they have some kind of disconnect between their physical body and their inner self*

They need therapy.

Exactly this. If somebody thought they were, say, Cleopatra or Queen Victoria, would we have to believe them, to "be kind"? If somebody is anorexic but thinks they are overweight, is the treatment to support them in their belief and withhold food, in order to "be kind"? These people have a mental illness that needs to be cured, not for the rest of the world to be complicit in their illusions.

@Itsanewdah

I’m biologically female with a vagina. I’m categorically NOT a woman. I’m also not a transman. I’m nonbinary, always have been (over 40 years now, so a bloody long “phase”). We are so much more than our bodies (have a look at society, biological differences explain almost none of the societal differences).

You are kidding yourself mate

Why isn't women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina considered the most inclusive term to use?

Why can't they just say woman? Females?

Why do we have to be fucking 'inclusive' anyway? Transmen don't want to be women - fine! Why are we trying to include them in a category they don't want to be included in? Non-binary females don't want to be included either. Let's just say women and if that doesn't fit you, whether that's because you're a man or because you reject womanhood, then great, it's not for you.

Us women are happy to be known as women. We are not 'bodies with vaginas'. We're WOMEN.

Why can't they just say woman? Females?

Female should just refer to basic biology with no gender judgement attached.

So people of the female persuasion are a description of body parts and definitely can't be described as women but people born male but now want to be female are definately women and can't be told otherwise....

That's not confusing or anything ...

@beastlyslumber

Why isn't women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina considered the most inclusive term to use?

Why can't they just say woman? Females?

Why do we have to be fucking 'inclusive' anyway? Transmen don't want to be women - fine! Why are we trying to include them in a category they don't want to be included in? Non-binary females don't want to be included either. Let's just say women and if that doesn't fit you, whether that's because you're a man or because you reject womanhood, then great, it's not for you.

Us women are happy to be known as women. We are not 'bodies with vaginas'. We're WOMEN.

I am a woman.

But there's a valid argument that if you're going to do a public health campaign (eg promote smear tests) then phrasing it as women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina is a good idea because the second two groups will assume that a campaign targeted at women only doesn't apply to them so they don't take notice. I am absolutely fine with women (my group) being listed with transmen and non-binary people.

It also prevents transwomen mistakenly assuming that the campaign applies to them although they might still believe it does as they think TWAW

Do people with vaginas need smears? I thought the smear was a swab from the cervix?

So you could have a vagina but not cervix or a cervix but no vagina?

Or you could have a vagina but also have had a hysterectomy?

There is no such thing as women trapped in men's bodies.
There are men who for whatever reason wish to present themselves as women. They are not women.
They remain men presenting themselves as women whatever procedures or hormones are involved. Humans cannot change sex.

@Sparklybanana

So people of the female persuasion are a description of body parts and definitely can't be described as women but people born male but now want to be female are definately women and can't be told otherwise....

That's not confusing or anything ...

This.

It's just utter denial of biological reality. I don't mind what people identify as, but I refuse to pander to people who won't acknowledge biological reality.

But there's a valid argument that if you're going to do a public health campaign (eg promote smear tests) then phrasing it as women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina is a good idea

'Female' would cover this.

I'm not okay with describing anyone by reference to their genitalia. It's dehumanising. I would also add that a 'non-binary person with a vagina' could be a male with a neovagina.

I wonder if all this bullshit has aided the rise of violence against women.

I am a woman.
I a woman gave birth.
I breastfed.
I had periods.
I’m now going through the menopause.

Enough now. Enough.

But there's a valid argument that if you're going to do a public health campaign (eg promote smear tests) then phrasing it as women, transmen and non-binary people with a vagina is a good idea because the second two groups will assume that a campaign targeted at women only doesn't apply to them so they don't take notice

I am absolutely sure that all transmen and non binary people born female are very aware that any medical campaign targeted at women is also targeted at them. They are all too aware that their bodies are female, they are not stupid.

Exactly @334bu I think it is very insulting to transmen and non binary people with female bodies to imply that they aren't aware they were born female (biological fact). The social construct (gender) they identify with doesn't take away the scientific reality of their bodies.

‘Bodies with vaginas’. I can’t believe we aren’t even worth referring to as ‘people with vaginas’.

Yup, it’s a disgrace. Misogyny is showing loud and proud in every corner of the land.

@YouMeandtheSpew

‘Bodies with vaginas’. I can’t believe we aren’t even worth referring to as ‘people with vaginas’.

I don't like that much more, tbh.

@DrSbaitso

No, me neither. But the fact we aren’t even worthy of language that at a minimum acknowledges us as living human beings is shocking.

This and ACLUs censoring of that RBG quote have made me absolutely furious. How dare they try and erase women!!!

@BananaPB

It also prevents transwomen mistakenly assuming that the campaign applies to them although they might still believe it does as they think TWAW

Yep because I’m sure transmen really appreciate been told they are a body, not a person. And I’m sure transwomen will be relieved to realise that they, actually, are still human.

No one, regardless of their gender or sex, should ever be referred as a body.

Trying to convince us that transpeople would be delighted with it because they are included is rubbish. Who would be delighted to be included in a dehumanising campaign??

The more I think about it, the more I can’t see much of a difference between this and men referring to women as ‘pussy’.

Yes they should just have called us " cunts" , after all that's what they think of us.

The term that medical journal is looking for is simply Woman. If a trans individual is insulted by that term, maybe then they realise there's more to being a woman than having a vagina so they do understand that aren't a woman.