The economy has shafted millennials: now it wants their offspring too

[CarryOnNurse20]

AIBU to ask your opinion on this article?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/23/economy-millennials-children-low-birthrate?CMP=fb_cif&fbclid=IwAR1C57OgCdGCGhSr5uVLI5tRVeMCq-eNtyyxEuUiYOjYgSn5P2w3yMHQeTM

As a dreaded millennial and a mother I find it very sad and very true for a lot of people I know.

@wellards Did you not read the first part where I said I understand it’s difficult for those already renting???

It's a really complicated situation in some ways. Of 1026 properties for sale, there are 10, yep, just 10, properties in my city (top 5 most expensive UK - and it's not London) sub £80k. Five are garages, one is a 25% share, and four are retirement flats. The two newest neighbours bought in their 30s (for a few times over that £80k), neither with parental help, both single, but they have really good jobs (yes, we're friendly neighbours, they offered this information!). No way could the backbone of the city (admins, various operating roles, etc) be able to afford this on their own without help. Even ex-council "right to buy" 1 beds in really crime ridden areas are pushing £200k. Those areas should be safe and affordable (as some were not so many years ago).

@wellards, my apologies then. It can be an emotive subject. To be perfectly honest at this point I am suggesting nothing about the fact that people are living longer. As I said, the decisions should have been taken 40 years ago. I am tired of the way the greed and ego of the rich - the seriously rich, who bought up dozens of homes in a nation with an acknowledged shortfall of a million - has been allowed to shaft all of us.

[quote blubberyboo]@chocolateorangeinhaler

I agree with the furniture thing. People used to scrimp a deposit and then begged and took donations of everything from second hand crockery to big furniture. Nothing matched and it was just the way to start out.
You moved in and decorated a room at a time or not!

Now everyone wants an Instagramable house Mrs Hinch style. And weddings in the tens of thousands.[/quote]
Well, this is basically what dh and I have done. We rented for years but unfurnished, all our furniture was second hand from eBay or charity shops or donated from family. Never had anything but an old car, bought in cash for about 2k.

We could still only buy because I inherited enough money for a deposit.

Four years into house ownership, most of our furniture is still the second hand stuff we bought years ago. Did buy ourselves new sofas with an unexpected tax rebate, and have bought the kids' beds new (but cheap - Argos and IKEA). Decorating is probably averaging 1 room a couple of years.

That’d take a couple around 2 years to hard save a 10% deposit of their wages whilst living at parents but no.

Parents are within their rights to tell their adult children to leave. Not every parent is prepared to have their adult child living at home. I know that we'd like to think that no loving parent would ever do that, but the reality is, that's not true. And the law is on their side. Once a child reaches their 18th birthday, their parents have no obligation to provide them with a roof over their heads any more.

I don't disagree about those points. The population issue will likely lead to a big decline in our living standards and the west losing dominance with younger countries becoming more powerful. The rich will be fine though, there will just be less for the rest of us.

We actually moved out of the area where our parents lived, in order to be able to afford to buy, and that was back in 1977. Our first place was a semi detached 2 bed bungalow, in Northamptonshire, cost £7,700. I have 3 grandkids, and they wouldn't DREAM of moving out of the area to buy a home. I can't help wondering how many youngsters would be prepared to do that to get started on the ladder??

@wellards

I don't disagree about those points. The population issue will likely lead to a big decline in our living standards and the west losing dominance with younger countries becoming more powerful. The rich will be fine though, there will just be less for the rest of us.

It's telling that many of the countries that have been worst hit by Covid (such as our own) are the one with ageing populations. Compared to, say, Africa.

Higher education is another element. There are loans that need to be paid back, but even apart from that there is the fact that while you are in higher education, you are not working in a way that does much more than pay for basics. You can't save. And more and more people are getting degrees, and multiple ones, so they are putting off working productivity later and later.

We sold our house about a year ago and one of the things I noticed that was really interesting was that all of the younger people looking to buy were in trades. There were a few younger men, under 25, who had been working for five years or so and had managed to save enough for a deposit. Most of my university friends at that age were finishing up masters degrees or just getting their legs in a professional job.

If we stopped the requirement for degrees in a lot of jobs where it really isn't necessary, it might make a significant difference to the number of people who could be buying homes in their 20s.

@ColorMagicBarbie

Surely an exponentially rising birth rate can't be a good thing. A couple has two kids, who each have two kids, who also have kids. Where does it end?

People usually answer that we need people to care for the elderly, but we will continue need more and more and more.

What you describe isn’t exponential as people don’t live forever. Replacement is just over 2 live births per woman. Currently in the U.K. birth rate is around 1.7 births per woman which would put population in decline. Our population is however growing due to increased life expectancy and immigration.

Did you not read the first part where I said I understand it’s difficult for those already renting???

Yes I read it however it was the rest of your post that I thought was nonsense.

Thinking pessimistically, we can expect a lot of climate refugees to move from the Middle East/equatorial countries as the heatwaves there grow unbearable. By the same token, climate change might push down overall life expectancy; heat stress isn't good for anyone.

Thinking positively; remote work may reduce the pressure on city living and break the link between job and location for some industries (smoothing out the house/rental prices). At the same time, new ones are popping up or rehabilitating old sites - I have read about heat pumps in abandoned mines in Durham, wind farms off the Northumbria coast, seaweed farming in Wales and lithium mining in Cornwall. So, places that were traditionally dogged by high unemployment may have a second shot at better jobs in their communities.

What I would like to see is a more humane rental system, allowing good tenants to have the reassurance of longer rental contracts and the chance to enjoy things such as pets without being scared of eviction. Home ownership is the key goal in this country, mostly because renting is so shit.

@Speakuptomakeyourselfheard we were millennials that took the option to do this, everyone thought we were mad and no one chose to do it themselves. All still first time buyers or still at home. I’m only saying it because it frustrates me that everyone complains that it’s not possible when it is. But you have to be prepared to move area and change up your commute, not stay put or aim for the area with Deli-Belly Art cafe on the corner.
Just no one is prepared to and we got so much slack for it. Well we’ve since moved back and no ones laughing now.

It's telling that many of the countries that have been worst hit by Covid (such as our own) are the one with ageing populations. Compared to, say, Africa.

Yep. The median age in Africa is approx 20 iirc, the UK is 40.

@Speakuptomakeyourselfheard

We actually moved out of the area where our parents lived, in order to be able to afford to buy, and that was back in 1977. Our first place was a semi detached 2 bed bungalow, in Northamptonshire, cost £7,700. I have 3 grandkids, and they wouldn't DREAM of moving out of the area to buy a home. I can't help wondering how many youngsters would be prepared to do that to get started on the ladder??

I actually do know of a few young people who have done this, and moved from Bristol to Newport, for example. Lots and lots of people move from central London to somewhere in zone 4+ because property is more affordable.

By and large, though, the trouble with moving somewhere more affordable is that the job which would allow you to apply for a mortgage on the affordable property is in the unaffordable place. Move too far away and commuting is either unfeasible or unaffordable itself.

@PickUpAPepper

And yet the world population (and the UK’s) rises, seemingly unstoppable. In 1976 U.K. was 56 million.

Not unstoppable. Birh rates fall to sustainable levels once living standards and healthcare improve in developed nations because women have education and careers, access to contraception, legal rights and choice etc.

The answer to global over-population issues is to address the horrific inequality across the globe. Then populations will reduce naturally without coersion or force, as they have in developed countries. David Attenborough even mentioned this in "Life on Earth". It's well documented.

Nobody likes that idea though as we'd have to stop exploiting poor people to support our own living standards so no politician will make a serious effort to make it happen.

Humans are depressing.

Home ownership is the key goal in this country, mostly because renting is so shit.

Yes renting should be a viable alternative & we should have more social housing that isn't sold off.

@Islamorada not resilient? How so? A generation that fights for their rights, fights for feminism, fights for a balance in life. A generation who are trying to learn that mental health issues does not equal weakness, as their parents believed. A generation that fights for equality for all. A generation who is trying to muddle through the mess left for us? A generation fighting for change, always and fucking making it happen? Sod off

I actually do know of a few young people who have done this, and moved from Bristol to Newport, for example. Lots and lots of people move from central London to somewhere in zone 4+ because property is more affordable.

We will move to the outer zones soon & away from family. It's perfectly normal. I'd like to leave London but jobs & family are here & commuting can cost that same if not more than another mortgage not to mention the time.

You know, people blame and despise Millennials if we live in a flat and rent, if we live with our parents and save for a house, if we have children, if we don't have them, if we stay in the UK, if we leave the country, if we go to uni, if we don't, if we stay single, if we live with someone, if we get married; We may as well just live life as we want to the best of our circumstances and pay no attention to what earlier generations think of us.

Also China reversing their policy & pushing for 3 children will have a big impact.

It might. But when they relaxed the policy to two children, there was not much of a baby bounce, then. Chinese couples face similar problems to us; the cost of living in cities, workplace sexism for women and the cost of childcare, plus supporting elderly parents, in many cases.

On top of that, China also has a sex ratio imbalance; up to 30 million missing girls.

I have absolutely no hope of there being an NHS, pensions, or adequate social care by the time I hit retirement. It does get grating to hear older generations try and offer 'helpful advice' when their own situations seemed much less bleak. It's completely irritating for them to fixate on the few luxuries we do enjoy, whilst also overlooking all the challenges we have that they did not.

You sound like you are expecting End Times! And for perspective, generations before you, including mine, had way worse prospects than you.

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey

I bought my house in "92" for 16k . It has rotting windows, no central heating, no inside bathroom, no fitted kitchen and woodchip on every wall. We sat on my aunts conservatory furniture for 2years and the first winter in the house was bloody freezing. We didn't care though as we owned our home. Very few people would live like that now days

Too true. Although I bought my house in 2003 and had no heating and single paned glass. I remember having to wear several layers in the house and the net curtains used to freeze to the glass. It was as drafty as hell. The front door used to leak and swell in the rain so I quite often had to boot it open. Didn’t have a telephone socket either. I’ve modernised it somewhat now though 🤣.

@AutistGoth Of course parents are within their rights to tell their children to leave, I’m talking about it you had understandable parents who want to help. I know that’s not everyone but I know no one and neither does my OH of anyone who stayed or moved back to save for a deposit with their own wages as a couple.

They don’t pay ££££ though. They ( and I) pay a small bit a month towards it. Why should someone whose job doesn’t gave a degree as a prerequisite such as a care worker or retail staff use their taxes to fund my job. Less humans are no bad thing. They’ll cope.

Uuugh. Because presumably when they need a doctor they will want someone qualified. They will want scientists to make medical and technocological advances to improve their lives. They'll want biologists to be able to figure out how to produce enough food for the global population when the effects of climate change hit. They'll want people qualified in finance to create a stable financial system that underpins our whole economy. They'll want architects to design homes for them to live in, engineers to build those homes safely and ensure there are roads to drive or walk on, boats and planes and cars to travel in. And technologies to help us save the climate from collapsing. They'll want teachers to teach their children. They'll want lawyers who can draft laws and enforce them, that will protect their legal rights. They'll want diplomats who are trained in international law to be able to try to prevent serious conflicts. Etc.

This idea that people in low skilled jobs on poor incomes have no vested interest in paying towards having qualified and skilled people in society is an utter nonsense. All industries exist because they serve a purpose and we all benefit from that overall economic and social ecosystem. It's better than living in a cave and looking for berries with your nuclear family.

This argument is as stupid as the "I live in a gated community, why should I pay for the police?" or "I don't claim benefits, why should I pay for them?" or "I send my children to private school so why should I pay towards state education?"

All stupidity of the same order. Grow up and think about it. The reasons why are obvious, in all of the above cases. That's why we live as a society and pool specialised skills and resources.