The economy has shafted millennials: now it wants their offspring too

[CarryOnNurse20]

AIBU to ask your opinion on this article?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/23/economy-millennials-children-low-birthrate?CMP=fb_cif&fbclid=IwAR1C57OgCdGCGhSr5uVLI5tRVeMCq-eNtyyxEuUiYOjYgSn5P2w3yMHQeTM

As a dreaded millennial and a mother I find it very sad and very true for a lot of people I know.

Plus I didn't think most millennials even used insta, I don't anymore.

Not read all thread so sorry to repeat any posts.
The only millennials to be where they want to be tend to be those that those fake independent couples that live in a house owned by the bank of mum and dad whilst they ‘rent’ and save up for a deposit. Actually cannot stand these smug types.

Me and OH bought a terrace on a rough-ish road in a good area. We had no new furniture, some bits from ikea, Tesco and home bargains I think to tart the place up. We went on no hen and stag do’s or international flashy weddings because - nope. Didn’t care for people’s annoyance. No big holidays. We made a profit on selling. But you tell me what couples would be happy to do that these days when most feel obliged to attend every wedding rat race and aim for their first home to be a 3-4 bed semi. People’s goal posts are unattainable that’s the biggest problem these days.

"63% of all the money spent by households in the under-35 age group in a typical week goes on essentials (£203 per week), which is the largest proportion among any age group."

"We also wanted to look at the differences which exist within age groups between households that are at different points along the income spectrum. These were very significant: the average household in the under-35 age group in the bottom income quintile devotes over 70% of its total weekly expenditure to essentials, which indicates that their living standards are under extreme pressure just from the cost of affording life’s basics. However, even relatively high-income households in the under-35 age group – those in the third and fourth income quintiles – are devoting over 65% of their total weekly expenditure to essentials, which is much more than equivalent households were in 2001–02."

Checked in my area 850 properties for sale 1 bedroom or more, 554 2 beds or more within 20 miles. We bought our first property here for £32,500 in 94, husband was earning £12K at the time. That same property is now about £110k equivalent jobs are now about £35k (Daughter who did the same type of work was earning £35K)

The friends my daughter went to school with who went into occupations that they could find local employment for after Uni ie teaching, medicine, engineering etc are all now homeowners, those who have moved south for work on the whole aren't. It very much is location that makes the difference.

@Hollyhead

The 1970s flat price is irrelevant without considering interest rates, so if the equivalent price of a flat would now be 74000, assuming interest of 8% the repayment equivalent on a 25 year mortgage would be 540 per month - which is very similar to if you had a £150000 mortgage now which would be typical for a starter flat outside the SE. It’s the deposit which is crippling for people now, not so much the actual repayments once you’ve got enough together. I would bring back 100% mortgages but for a lower multiple of salary - maybe minimum wage (because you can always pick up minimum wage) * 3 or something. It would really help people in very poor areas.

This is true.

There is no denying that houses now cost more as a multiple of take home pay. Even once you factor in interest over a 25year period.

As a millennial that's annoy, but just one of those things. Suppose you can't have everything.

However it's the deposits and 4x salary rule that make it impossible for many of us.

For a while I was paying £1200 a month in rent. I finally managed to scrap together a deposit, only to be told I could afford £1000 in mortgage payments a month. So, hang on so I can afford £1200pcm to pay off someone else's mortgage, but I can't afford £1000pcm to pay off my own

People’s goal posts are unattainable that’s the biggest problem these days.

It's really not. The average age of a FTB is now 34, it's logical they have different needs to a 24 yr old. Whatever they do buy is going to be more expensive & they are likely going to have to stay there a while as people move far less frequently these days.

@CreepingDeath

I have had to replace my washing machine three times in 8 years. I got a repair man out to look at my Samsung bubble wash when it packed in after 4 years and he honestly said "don't know what you expect these days" My parents had the same appliances for years! I swear my FIL has kitchen appliances from the 90s in his house. Nothing today is designed to last and no one questions it because we are such a throwaway society. Drives me nuts.

It's called Planned Obsolescence - a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life or a purposely frail design, so that it becomes obsolete after a certain pre-determined period of time upon which it decrementally functions or suddenly ceases to function, or might be perceived as unfashionable.
The rationale behind this strategy is to generate long-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases (referred to as "shortening the replacement cycle").

It has been going on for many years, particularly with white goods like washing machines etc. I shudder when I think of where this stuff all ends up.

Indeed. One of the many apparent "evils" and crimes of the EU which meant we had to leave it was that it is outlawing this and creating a legal obligation for companies to make products that are capable of being repaired and continue to provide the parts to do so.

The horror of the beaurocrasy, etc etc...

I’m lost. Who are considered Baby Boomers, Gen X and Millenials? Recently I heard of Gen Z and apparently they’re people who are born after 2005. I feel old

We need the birth rate to decline because there are too many humans on the planet. The sector of the population that like cheap immigrants don’t like that as it might lead to pressure to return rights and wages to decent living levels. The ecological limits just kinda might possibly take priority over their insane levels of ego and greed by just a teeny-tiny little bit.

Gen z born late 90s onwards. Millennials are born early 80s onwards

No @WatchMyChops,

Gen Z people will have been born between 1997 and 2012
Before them are Millenials born between 1981 and 1996.
Before them Gen X born 1965 and 1980
Before them, Baby Boomers

The youngest Generation, born since 2013 are known as Generation Alpha.

@wellards but why are people FTB at 34? I know far more people that don’t stay at home and save for a deposit, they move out and rent or move in together and rent. Then no wonder there’s not much money left at the end of each month as rent is so high. I understand not everyone is in a position to stay at their parents home and save but most take the initiative not to unless they’ve had to boomerang back.

@PickUpAPepper what do you think it should decline to in the UK?

How do you suggest we manage the ageing population?

"In 50 years there are projected to be an additional 8.6 million people aged 65 years and over – a population roughly equivalent to the size of London"
"By 2030, one in five people in the UK (21.8%) will be aged 65 or over"

@Samuraisammy do it's got nothing to do with wage stagnation & increased house prices 🤔

so not do.

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Hmmm well I have my theory that this has slowly been ticking away like a time bomb since the mid 70's. Obsession over house price increases has got to the point where nobody can afford a house until in their 30s. My parents bought their first house in 72 when they were 19 & 21. That's unheard of now. Every stick of furniture was second hand and they didn't have a TV for the first six months. People nowadays wouldn't accept living like that. We've been brainwashed into being consumers with the fear that your not 'normal' unless you have the latest must have thing. The amount of people in debt because of keeping up with the Jones's is scary. Childcare is extortionate in the uk compared to other countries. Schools are over subscribed and there is the constant underlying whispers that the environment is shot and any future generations won't make it. No wonder people don't want to bring more humans into this mess.

Hey! we lived like that for longer. Years and years longer. Except we were doing it to rent rather than own

@PickUpAPepper

We need the birth rate to decline because there are too many humans on the planet. The sector of the population that like cheap immigrants don’t like that as it might lead to pressure to return rights and wages to decent living levels. The ecological limits just kinda might possibly take priority over their insane levels of ego and greed by just a teeny-tiny little bit.

From a very western point of view....

Environmentally we need global population to decrease. Economically we need the younger working population to increase.

To put it bluntly the only solution that suits both is for life expectancy to drop or stagnate.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying we should kill anyone off, I'm just pointing out an unpleasant truth.

I broadly agree with the article OP. I'm a late millenial (born 1994) so have been hit with the £9k per year university tuition fees as well, which has been a lovely extra bonus to the whole shitshow.

Throughout the entirety of my schooling I was taught about the damage we do to the environment and one teacher in particular used to tell us with glee that "In 20 years time you'll all be walking around in gas masks because the world will be uninhabitable." I've wrestled with the ethics of having a baby as a consequence ever since I was a kid myself, but ultimately have decided to try. But...turns out my DH and I aren't the most fertile couple in the world either (and there's been studies showing that infertility has increased for both men and women over the past couple of generations - seemingly also related to damage we've done to the environment).

On top of that, my DH and I couldn't even bring ourselves to thinking about having a baby earlier due to issues such as the job market, high rent costs relative to income (even though we were flat sharing), and student debt. It's only since we emigrated that it became an option for us.

Raising a deposit in the UK if you live in the South or in a city such as Edinburgh is really difficult without getting help from family. Certain jobs are clustered around places where the living costs are higher - even with a 1 hour commute the rent can be eating up a healthy portion of your income.

People like to assume we're all the same Insta hyper-consumerists, but the reality is that the majority of us probably have spent a large portion of our 20s in mould-infested, dodgy apartments, spending at least 25% of our pre-tax income on rent. Gadgets are relatively cheap compared to that, can be inherited/bought second hand for a reasonable price, and provide a respite from what seems like an otherwise pretty depressing predicament.

I have absolutely no hope of there being an NHS, pensions, or adequate social care by the time I hit retirement. It does get grating to hear older generations try and offer 'helpful advice' when their own situations seemed much less bleak. It's completely irritating for them to fixate on the few luxuries we do enjoy, whilst also overlooking all the challenges we have that they did not.

@worrybutterfly it's unsavoury but it's true. Why would you want older, ill people who are retired over young workers? It's not sustainable.

There's about 100 properties in my town under £80K, including 3 bedroomed houses. Most people at work buy a house within a couple of years of graduating. Prices in the SE are overinflated but that doesn't mean the whole country is the same.

It’s generally estimated that the feeding capacity of the land is round abput 40-50 million. That might be a reasonable aim for us. Two provisos are that as land gets flooded by the sea that will drop a little, and I’m not sure how quickly we should aim to drop it. The ageing population is going to have it a lot tougher than the baby boomers did.

It really doesn’t matter how we manage it, as it’s not a matter for choice. Populations will be reducing either way. Political decisions should have been made with that in mind for the last 40 years as that is how long we have known. The globalist madness should never have happened. Blame the fools in power then, not me.

It's also not all by choice - fertility rates have been steadily declining since the 70s - interesting article about that recently to do with phthalates showing that if sperm counts reduce at the same rate going forward (and nothing to indicate that the trend is slowing) then the majority of conceptions in the 2040s will have to be by IVF - that's frightening

@wellards

Gen X are the ones before millennials? I think they still did ok, or perhaps it's just the ones I know as they managed to buy a house in time.

The Gen X / Millennial cusp is approx. 1980.

I was born in 1980 and was hit by student debt and sky rocketing house prices after graduation, followed by the global financial crash and a shocking job market. My brother is only 2 years older and university fees were nothing like the same for him - I'm not sure he even had to pay tuition fees! My sister is 5 years older and house prices were nothing like the same for her.

Having said that, I do find the later-born Millennials that I meet in the workplace to live up to the precious stereotype. I buckled down, accented the grim economy and worked my ass off to scrape together a deposit and buy a small flat in my early 30s. The younger colleagues in my workplace have a massive sense of entitlement that I find really hard to swallow. I was a great protestor against the precious Millennial stereotype until I worked with them!

If I were a millennial I would definitely feel hard done by compared to the earlier generations. I'm so lucky I had a free university education

I was chatting to a woman born in 1928 today. She is currently in a care home costing her £5000+ per month. She and her family lived in a small house near Manchester when she was born. She saw three of her siblings die of childhood diseases pre penicillin, NHS etc. Her father had been injured in WW1 and her oldest brother was killed in WW2. Their home was destroyed by bombing in WW2 and they spent several years living in one room together. It was almost impossible to access further and higher education if you were a woman however clever you were. She did benefit from the foundation of the NHS and she has benefited from house price growth over the years. But since she has been in care for 4 years now almost all of that money is gone.

So I am not entirely convinced that Generation x and Millenials are much worse off.

@PickUpAPepper birth rates are reducing in lots of countries but it does need to be managed.