The economy has shafted millennials: now it wants their offspring too

[CarryOnNurse20]

AIBU to ask your opinion on this article?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/23/economy-millennials-children-low-birthrate?CMP=fb_cif&fbclid=IwAR1C57OgCdGCGhSr5uVLI5tRVeMCq-eNtyyxEuUiYOjYgSn5P2w3yMHQeTM

As a dreaded millennial and a mother I find it very sad and very true for a lot of people I know.

The 1970s flat price is irrelevant without considering interest rates, so if the equivalent price of a flat would now be 74000, assuming interest of 8% the repayment equivalent on a 25 year mortgage would be 540 per month - which is very similar to if you had a £150000 mortgage now which would be typical for a starter flat outside the SE. It’s the deposit which is crippling for people now, not so much the actual repayments once you’ve got enough together. I would bring back 100% mortgages but for a lower multiple of salary - maybe minimum wage (because you can always pick up minimum wage) * 3 or something. It would really help people in very poor areas.

Perhaps we'd all be less inclined to pity our own generation if we looked back a little further than the one or two before us.

Having heard from elderly relatives about living through (and fighting in) the world wars, about the reality of high infant mortality and far less developed medicine, about the lack of help for the poor, some of whom were literally starving, should we be complaining?

I don't like my student debt, but my grandmother couldn't even accept her grammar school scholarship at 14 because her mother couldn't afford the uniform. So she had to get a job instead.

I don't like that I'm poorer than most baby boomers I know, but I live in an age of the welfare state and free healthcare, unlike my great grandparents, who didn't even get free healthcare for problems related to injuries sustained fighting in WW1.

And that's before we even start considering the billions who are poorer than us, and live harder lives, and will die earlier. If birth were a lottery, we've come out with some major prizes.

Oh god not the war schtick!

As a Generation-Xer myself, I think we've been incredibly lucky; free university education, better and cheaper student loans, many of us bought just before the housing boom, and so are now are in the late stages of paying off low interest rate, cheap mortgages on what are now expensive houses. We still have a chance of a fairly decent state pension too

It depends exactly where in Gen X you fall. I graduated during a massive recession and high unemployment. Apart from those who had done vocational courses like Law, no one with whom I graduated had a proper job for a years, so house-buying was out of the question, plus interest rates were 15%. I can see a lot of similarities with Millenials, in fact, but I worry that things will never turn round for them, as they eventually did for many of us.

@FriedasCarLoad yes that's all true but it's a hard thing to have to say to millennials and gen Z..."suck it up because your great grandparents had it far harder"

The most screwed generation will be generation X and older milenials (people in their early 40/late 30s today).

When they’re old and can’t work/ need care... there will be no universal state pension (experts agree it is very likely to be means tested in 20 years) and very little coming into the pot because of the dwindling numbers of working age people.

Baby boomers will be fine and probably the younger millennials too because the gen X oldies will be gone by the time they are ageing.

That's it. No one complain. Don't even think about it.

There was a war a long time ago and they just simply had it worse (UK, there were more recent issues elsewhere)

What I don't get is why everyone is not aware of the culture wars and "divide and conquer" this "journalism" encourages - it's almost as if they are naïve, narcissistic columnists who just want their name in print no matter what

That's it. No one complain. Don't even think about it.

yep, you can't moan unless your dead.

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey

I bought my house in "92" for 16k . It has rotting windows, no central heating, no inside bathroom, no fitted kitchen and woodchip on every wall. We sat on my aunts conservatory furniture for 2years and the first winter in the house was bloody freezing. We didn't care though as we owned our home. Very few people would live like that now days

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at this.

But we brought a similar house in 2017, in the SE in the area me and my DH were raised. We lived in it and gradually did it up...

But instead of it costing us £32k (which is what £16k in 92 is equivalent to in 2017), it cost us over £500k.

Majority of our friends have tried to do the same. But problem is now these doer-uppers are brought by investors who are cash buyers and more 'appealing' to sellers and estate agents, so they aren't able to get a viewing let alone buy them.

@Hollyhead

The 1970s flat price is irrelevant without considering interest rates, so if the equivalent price of a flat would now be 74000, assuming interest of 8% the repayment equivalent on a 25 year mortgage would be 540 per month - which is very similar to if you had a £150000 mortgage now which would be typical for a starter flat outside the SE. It’s the deposit which is crippling for people now, not so much the actual repayments once you’ve got enough together. I would bring back 100% mortgages but for a lower multiple of salary - maybe minimum wage (because you can always pick up minimum wage) * 3 or something. It would really help people in very poor areas.

Er, have you seen interest rates for 10% deposits??

[quote CarryOnNurse20]@chocolateorangeinhaler I sometimes wonder whether people want luxury things (eg smartphones, large tvs etc) because at least these things are within reach and can give a tangible result of hard work. Because deposits need to be so high and houses are so expensive they’re almost so beyond reach people don’t bother to save. I dare say the vast majority of people (certainly my friends and myself) would prefer to have an affordable house and cut back significantly on other things but that’s not an option really these days.[/quote]
It's such a cliche to say people used to have houses but now we have flat screen TVs and smartphones instead.

You can't buy a non flat screen TV. It's hard to navigate modern life without a smartphone (tickets, timetables etc not to mention job applications and email).

You need what, £10k at least as a deposit? A flat screen and smartphone cost a couple of hundred.

I have had to replace my washing machine three times in 8 years. I got a repair man out to look at my Samsung bubble wash when it packed in after 4 years and he honestly said "don't know what you expect these days"
My parents had the same appliances for years!
I swear my FIL has kitchen appliances from the 90s in his house. Nothing today is designed to last and no one questions it because we are such a throwaway society. Drives me nuts.

It's called Planned Obsolescence - a policy of planning or designing a product with an artificially limited useful life or a purposely frail design, so that it becomes obsolete after a certain pre-determined period of time upon which it decrementally functions or suddenly ceases to function, or might be perceived as unfashionable.
The rationale behind this strategy is to generate long-term sales volume by reducing the time between repeat purchases (referred to as "shortening the replacement cycle").

It has been going on for many years, particularly with white goods like washing machines etc. I shudder when I think of where this stuff all ends up.

The real problem which is unpalatable to face is that we are living way too long.

We do need the birth rate to rise or there won't be enough taxpayers to support the pension/Social care/NHS bills.

My DC are Gen Z - 24 and 21, and both plan to have children. How they will afford it I just don't know I think older Millenials, those turning/approaching 40, haven't had too much to complain about as housing was affordable if you had the deposit and foresight to buy young. Obviously many just weren't in that position, but that's the same for all generations.

Boomers have No Fucking Idea how good they had it.

Saying people can move from SE/London to cheap areas is a non argument. Salaries are lower, and if you want a family, you are losing your chance of having at least some free child care.

@goldbar a smartphone, laptop etc can be a luxury. You can pick up fairly cheap tech nowadays but everyone I know has mac books or fancy tablets. One friend is on the apple upgrade programme and pays nearly £100pm for their mobile contact so they can always have the latest and greatest mobile as soon as apple releases a new one. That same person is currently trying to save for a new house as DC is going to be starting high school soon and they want a better catchment school but they have been struggling to save. The phone money and the fancy BMW car finance are without doubt, key hindrances.

Just found a house in the same group of 6 that Dparents bought for £3500 in 71. It's a 3 bed end of terrace 1960s build, £500k.

We couldn't afford my parents starter home as two teachers who have been teaching for 27 years, approaching 50. DM and DF were in their early 20s when they bought it.

It's shocking isn't it really.

@Dasher789. On that rationale, anything can be a luxury... clothes, cars, furniture. I agree with you that some people feel pressure to buy the expensive versions, but the basic item isn't a luxury.

We do need the birth rate to rise or there won't be enough taxpayers to support the pension/Social care/NHS bills.

I've seen people on here say don't worry we will just get immigrants as if you can just swoop in & pluck them! But many countries will need immigrants so they will have the power.

The real problem which is unpalatable to face is that we are living way too long.

Actually, as brutal as it sounds... Yeah

@sandragreen it works the other way too though, London has so many more job options and higher paid jobs. For those who grew up outside the South and who don't have family they can stay with, that world of opportunity has huge barriers to entry. People further north might have more chance of getting a cheaper house but then they probably also have more chance of not advancing their career to the same degree.

@wellards

We do need the birth rate to rise or there won't be enough taxpayers to support the pension/Social care/NHS bills.

I've seen people on here say don't worry we will just get immigrants as if you can just swoop in & pluck them! But many countries will need immigrants so they will have the power.

Tbf I just don't expect any provision.

And btw, bythat time uk will be totally undesirable to immigrate into for lower income jobs. It's already getting there

@Lanique, I expect it depends on what end of Generation X you were on. I was less than 5 years ahead of the millennials and from a deprived background. The two together mean I shared the millennial experience in respect of hpusing except no one was willing to listen to us sounding alarms because it hadn’t affected the middle classes yet. We saw the introduction of loans and tuition fees too although they were not so ludicrous that debt was normalised yet. The older end, 10 years older than me, got the baby boomer experience.

I agree about better music though! The other good thing is that we definitely remember that this country was a different place once. This shift to dependency on globalised finance and baby boomer landlording wealth was a very deliberate choice.

And btw, bythat time uk will be totally undesirable to immigrate into for lower income jobs. It's already getting there

exactly.
that's why i'm pissed off with extra NI, I'd rather add that to my savings.

@goldbar yes you are right. In my experience, millenials want the best tech and the best of everything but I see in this thread others saying that's not their experience which is interesting. My insta is full of people with £300+ trainers, brand new iPhones etc i have no idea how they have the money. DH and I are millennials and both have professional jobs so are reasonably comfortable. I cant understand how people we know have so much more 'stuff' than us.

insta isn't real