The economy has shafted millennials: now it wants their offspring too

[CarryOnNurse20]

AIBU to ask your opinion on this article?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/23/economy-millennials-children-low-birthrate?CMP=fb_cif&fbclid=IwAR1C57OgCdGCGhSr5uVLI5tRVeMCq-eNtyyxEuUiYOjYgSn5P2w3yMHQeTM

As a dreaded millennial and a mother I find it very sad and very true for a lot of people I know.

The first section of this is just your opinion stated as fact. I was lucky enough to buy my first house (my partner’s second) at 24. We had no central heating for a year, no TV for 6 months, all our furniture was second-hand from family/gifted.
One of our salaries today was equivalent to our joint earnings then, and we took a 40 year mortgage.

Millenial housing insecurity is the result of decades of piss-poor housing policy, a largely unregulated rental market, economic instability and wealth inequality. It is not a result of under-30’s not being able to live without a fucking tv.

[quote Samuraisammy]@OddSockReunion
Not sure what else I can say other than handbags and cuppa soup?[/quote]
Well, indeed. We'd figured that out already.

Thanks for your.... contribution 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🙄🥱 to the conversation. 🤣

@Samuraisammy - just give it a rest will you! What makes you think everyone (or even anyone) wants to read dozens of your increasingly irrational posts.

There are many reasons why the birth rate is falling. Baby boomers were named this for a reason. My DM was one of seven children, many other families had a similar amount. Those seven children each had only two/three children each, my Second cousins are now having two/ three children each. The economy is based on population maintaining at a steady rate, with births and deaths cancelling each other out. Baby boomers had quite a few children and due to better medicine are living longer. We now have a swell in population that isn't going to decrease at the rate it should as people are living longer. Unfortunately society and the economy has had to swell to accommodate all these extra people. It makes sense that we're going to have to shrink at some point.

The economy has shafted most people at some stage in their lives I remember when mine were young worrying about the atom bomb. We had to scrimp and save to buy somewhere to live and as pp said secondhand furniture etc.

As a millennial the biggest debate I have about the whole thing is that most people are out of touch with how much things cost. I'll use my Mil as a "in my day we just saved example"

People talk about 80k flats, I live in one of the most deprived areas of the South East and there's 50 things on rightmove under that within a 40 min car travel distance. Every single one is either a retirement flat, something that's not housing(eg a garage), a caravan or something that's not mortgagable eg auction properties or cash buyers only. I'm not sure why people always insist that people need to move, I could understand if we were talking a swanky area but this is a deprived area, it needs nhs staff, teachers, and people on regular wages to live here

Like most people I'm bound by a mortgage, the cheap houses without heating, kitchens etc or incredibly mouldy that people are talking about buying are either sold by auction or cash buyers as not mortgagable . Unless you can buy the whole thing out right then you don't have a chance. Mil says they bought a flat by saving and we need to lower our standards

MIL says find a doer upper. If we found a mortgagable house where the mortgage value allowed us to buy it, we would then need the money to do it up. Mil says central heating, electrics doesn't cost much her friend did hers. She was amazed at how much the estimate for those things are now. Don't get me started on how much she thinks a kitchen or bathroom might cost.

If we had lots of cash then yes we would find a rip out job but ultimately you often need large chunks of cash for it, or to buy those properties. If like me you need a 90% mortgage then its not doable

My Mil is also a fan of the "why such fancy weddings" just use a village hall type of thinking. We planned out a wedding not dissimilar to hers, and she called the venue herself because she wouldn't believe the cost and thought we must have it wrong.

I agree with previous poster that said its not about blaming other generations, it's just about asking other generations to not insist that it's because everyone under 35 is lazy, vain, buying too many avocados. Everyone's options changes I'm each generations, just like some of the options available to our grand parents werent offered to their children, and whats offered to us won't be the same offered to the generation below. Just let's not pretend that the circumstances are the same and everyone should just try harder?

I really do think we've done this for ourselves over time without realizing.

It used to be that you usually lived in the same town/ city you worked in. You could walk/cycle to work or school. So we're not reliant on having to have an extra car.
As we love having the next new thing as cheap as possible manufacturers solved this by outsourcing to cheap Far East countries where there is scant regard for wages or safety of employees. But who cares if you can get a 60" tv from tesco for £199. The same thing if made in the UK would be a much higher price due to minimum wages and other mandatory requirements employers have to do to protect employees. Would you pay £800 for a TV from a supermarket that might only last until the new must have TV arrives? No me neither. So factories have closed. Housing estates built on top of them. People have to travel further afield for jobs. Areas that do have jobs become victim to supply/demand and property prices soar. Other areas fall into decline and people can't get out.

We need to stop consuming utter junk we don't need and start paying a realistic price for things made locally, to create local jobs and level out the housing market.

Everyone's greed has caused this. It can never be blamed on one generation. But on a personal level who is prepared to shop local and only use a bike and get items repaired rather than replace or only replace when it fails totally rather than you want a bigger one or one in a different colour.

@Pixxie7
Second hand isn't always better though. I'm in a deprived area and our local Facebook market places aren't any cheaper then argos furniture etc due to the high demand for second hand

My parents that live in a wealthy area, there are some bargains to be had, but not unless I drive out of area (and incurr petrol costs) in general buying second hand doesn't save much here

Flat pack wasn’t available then so yes second hand was a lot cheaper as normally it was free.

@Pixxie7 I'm not saying that it might not have been a really good option for you, just that it might not be as much of a good option for people now.

I recognise that for different areas of the country its very different, and that in general good quality second hand stuff will last longer than cheap new stuff but that only helps if you have the money to invest in quality stuff in the first place

There certainly isn't much for free on my local area pages, there's only 3 bed frames (that aren't broken or a divan that I couldn't move without also hiring a van) in 5 miles for sale under the price of what I can get one from IKEA for. That's without figuring out how to get it in my car, and they look about ikea quality too.

A lot of things that even a few years ago was considered a luxury is really now essential. An example of this is an I phone or equivalent so a family of 4 needs 4 phones, the same with computers and broadband is essential with most correspondence sent on line. These are all extra expenses before you start on luxuries.

[quote doublemonkey]@monkeytennis9, that doesn't surprise me but there are plenty of areas in the country with cheap housing. It's absolutey possible to get on the property ladder with a small deposit and wage.[/quote]
But getting on the property ladder means you need to be able re-sell at an increase and many 'cheap' houses are priced that way because they need expensive work or are in less desirable locations which makes that difficult. I know people trapped in 'cheap' houses, unable to renovate, unable to sell and for quality of life would have been better renting in an area they like living in, near to work, transport, good schools etc.

This generation is the first one in ages who will have a lower life quality than their parents.

The “luxury” goods we have, eg instagramable furniture, are relatively cheap. IKEA furniture plus a can of gold contact paper is much cheaper than furniture the previous generation bought, but getting it gets the boomers going “omg you have golden furniture no wonder you can’t afford a house”.

The price of houses has gone up ridiculously (much faster than inflation) and the salaries have stayed the same (or gone down compared to inflation). It is objectively harder to buy a house because the cost-to-salary ratio.

Olda it was an option because it wasn’t available generally speaking it is probably comparatively speaking cheaper to furnish a house these days with essentials, shame about the same can’t be said about the house for it to go.

I feel like the media has us trapped in thinking of Millennials as young and foolish. The oldest Millenials are 40. Way past the stage of living with parents to save money. Also mature enough to (usually) make fairly sensible financial decisions.

The idea that Millennials spend all their money on going out (as a previous poster suggested) just can't be true. Surveys have shows Millennials spend less on alcohol than previous generations.

Consumer goods are also cheap now - just look at the cheapest flat screen TVs and smartphones. So cheap as to be almost disposable. Not great in terms of our throwaway culture but also not what's stopping anyone from saving a deposit.

When previous generations tell us they bought the cheapest place in their area and scrimped and saved to do it up, it's admirable but a lot of the time they aren't seeing how the world has changed. The cheapest place in many areas now is still hugely expensive compared to our stagnant wages.

This thread is depressing in that just when you start to think that the older generations are starting to get it you read the same old bullshite on here. I thought the problem of house prices and entrenched generational inequality was pretty much accepted, as the failing economy bites further and further up the hierarchy. Unless it’s just morons trolling for sad kicks. Pixxie7 this is not just another economic downturn, there has not been a serious economic upturn for the vast majority of people in over 20 years, and that small one in the late 90s only benefitted those who were already homeowners then. I really don’t understand why people pretend not to see that tenants have to scrimp and save and do without posh furniture - and avocados - and dry unmouldy walls in order to rent. House prices have gone up exponentially for decades while wages have not.

They said no one wants to start off in a rubbish flat in a bad area, they want a nice place with nice things straightaway, and a lot of their friends blow all their salary each month and then moan they can't afford to move out.

A lot of people struggle to budget nowadays. Perhaps home working has shown them how to budget better. I.e. don't spend a fiver in Pret every day for lunch, don't buy a 4 pound coffee and a 2 pound cookie from Costa every morning.

But everything is more expensive now. Even a night out. Compare the relative price of a pint 40 years ago to now, or even your cab fare home. If you went to a festival like Glastonbury it wouldn't cost you the then equivalent of hundreds of pounds back in the day. Even in the early 80s you could get into any football ground for a pound or two.

And the extras needed for modern life such as smart phones. The fact things don't last nowadays. Even the smart phone starts to wear out once that two year contract ends. I remember having an old Nokia for about 5 years that cost me about 20 quid and i'd just pop a tenner in it every month or 2. That was before apps.

Anyone not earning huge money who can afford all these things is probably in unsustainable credit card debt, but that's neoliberalism. Cheap credit, spend spend spend.

I'm only 50 but got my first house at 23. It cost 35k and I earnt 11k.

No way those percentage can work now. At least not in the south east.

Average one bed 180-200k
Average salary 24-35 k

The
Math just do t work.

What a load of nonsense

While i quite agree withoat og the post, just want to add to this that
something that's not mortgagable eg auction properties
You can get mortgage on auction properties.

@PickUpAPepper yes I don't understand the need to deny facts. Saying that people younger than me have it harder than me or I couldn't have bought without family help doesn't mean I've had a life of luxury whilst being fed bon-bons!

Why is the default to ignore the truth & blame feckless youths?

I suppose it's like those who vote Tory thinking it will make them richer, who then realise they have less in their pocket but instead of blaming the government policies it's "them in the dinghies".

“I wonder why women are having fewer children?” Said no woman ever.

The point about pensions is correct, but no way should women be encouraged to have more children to fix this. We’re not brood mares. The climate can’t cope with bigger populations anyway; the global population needs to shrink.

I think being childfree more is also because the pitfalls of parenting are less of a taboo. Not just work or money. It's the relentlessness, people talk about the negative sides now openly, we understand pnd better, more open about disabilities and risks, and so on and and on. We can now make informed decision. And we (well still work to be done there) aren't shamed for it as much as before. Still shamed, but it's getting better.
My mum loves us but even she admitted if she waa that age now, she probably would choose not to have kids. Or at least wait until 30s.

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey

I bought my house in "92" for 16k . It has rotting windows, no central heating, no inside bathroom, no fitted kitchen and woodchip on every wall. We sat on my aunts conservatory furniture for 2years and the first winter in the house was bloody freezing. We didn't care though as we owned our home. Very few people would live like that now days

Plenty would but there aren't the opportunities because all of those houses have been "property developed".

Most would rather own a place like yours than carry on with the insecurity of renting.