The economy has shafted millennials: now it wants their offspring too

[CarryOnNurse20]

AIBU to ask your opinion on this article?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/sep/23/economy-millennials-children-low-birthrate?CMP=fb_cif&fbclid=IwAR1C57OgCdGCGhSr5uVLI5tRVeMCq-eNtyyxEuUiYOjYgSn5P2w3yMHQeTM

As a dreaded millennial and a mother I find it very sad and very true for a lot of people I know.

@Pixxie7

The economy has shafted most people at some stage in their lives I remember when mine were young worrying about the atom bomb. We had to scrimp and save to buy somewhere to live and as pp said secondhand furniture etc.

Also the 80s. Depending on your circumstances or where you grew up it was either easy money and get rich, under Thatcher, or rot away in decaying communities that have lost their industries. That's where the massive divide between rich and poor really started in modern times.

I thought you were having a conversion with yourself ffs😂 @jesus

@Annoyedanddissapointed

226 of 1+ bedroom for under 80k around me.

How many are shared ownership though?

@JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon none shouls. I uncklicke them

@iago

No, you don't understand. You're a boomer. Everything is your fault and because your house now has a label on it with a lot of noughts you are stinking rich, selfish and greedy even though it's the same house as when you bought it and you can't realise its value without selling.
This is now The Truth and you are not allowed to point out why it doesn't universally apply without the stunning, argument-winning riposte ' ok boomer' which instantly nixes you and your inconvenient facts.
Witness all the replies to this comment...

@chocolateorangeinhaler

Hmmm well I have my theory that this has slowly been ticking away like a time bomb since the mid 70's. Obsession over house price increases has got to the point where nobody can afford a house until in their 30s. My parents bought their first house in 72 when they were 19 & 21. That's unheard of now. Every stick of furniture was second hand and they didn't have a TV for the first six months. People nowadays wouldn't accept living like that. We've been brainwashed into being consumers with the fear that your not 'normal' unless you have the latest must have thing. The amount of people in debt because of keeping up with the Jones's is scary. Childcare is extortionate in the uk compared to other countries. Schools are over subscribed and there is the constant underlying whispers that the environment is shot and any future generations won't make it. No wonder people don't want to bring more humans into this mess.

This is pretty much it, although I love second hand furniture and clothes and don't choose to get into debt over owning new clothes. Even our TV was second hand and our first one was free and donated.

I think it is seeing older generations (not everyone) have more wealth than them. If you feel poor, you don't have kids in individualistic countries (may be different in third world countries). Birth rates have fallen in many countries and it is probably to do with declining wages, high housing and childcare costs and political uncertainty (this morning we are told fuel could be rationed now). We both have to work FT to get by and save some money for our future. We buy second hand, rarely eat out, don't go abroad, have second hand cars. We have no debt. Our household income is over 70k. If we had the same jobs and equivalent salaries 30 years ago, we would most likely have bought our property and one of us would be able to give up work and we would still be comfortable. Instead we are paying stupid money on someone else's mortgage and childcare which would be hugely subsidized in the rest of Europe. We don't even rent a massive house, So it's not because of extravagance - it's a two bed flat for a family of 4. It's shit.

Oh god, I see this thread has already descended into 'well when I was younger I lived in a shed and I was ok'. Many people live in damp overcrowded flats now and I'm sure when many people were in their damp flat years ago they would have expected some progress and this to be a thing of the past. I certainly would want things to change for my children.

Can we please stop blaming each other? These threads are often derailed by these sorts of comments to draw attention away from the fact that this GOVERNMENT IS SHIT. They have seen these problems coming and have done nothing and they were there way before COVID came along.

@blubberyboo

Every generation has had its own problems

My mothers generation had to give up work when they married and didn’t get any decisions in finances. Many of them didnt know how to operate a bank account.

I was one of the first years to encounter student loans rather than grants and we were given very scant information about what it would mean.

For my first baby I was only allowed 18 weeks paid maternity and yet this article complains about the paternity leave. Paternity leave was unheard of 20+ years ago and childcare options weren’t very plentiful. We’d only started letting men into labour wards really.

Our generation had the boom and bust credit crunch on the housing market causing many of our age to spiral into debt and unemployment and losing their homes.

Earlier generations had much less quality of life but perhaps simpler times.

Every generation has had its ups and downs

This post sums it up brilliantly.

I'm of the much maligned Baby Boomer generation and yes we have done alright regarding house prices.

But whatever you sell your house for, goes into the next one, you don't get to keep the rise unless you're downsizing massively.

My accrued wealth will pass to my millennial children

@toconclude

It's not about blame. It's about acknowledging that each generation faces different challenges and the solution that worked for you won't always work for people now.

No one is saying you should move out of your house, just that telling people they could afford to buy your house if only they didn't have a phone, or buy Costa isn't realistic nor is telling them to try harder.

We need to be finding solutions rather than assuming other should try harder or having an "alright jack" attitude just because you housing is secure and presumably benefit from increased house prices should you sell

@Thisbastardcomputer
Even if you don't sell, your percentage wage going on mortgage is likely to be much less than a non boomer.

Inherited wealth just keeps money and house owning only within the reaches of certain people. Its also not a given considering the massive likely hood of care costs etc.

My parents bought their house for 7k in 1978
It’s now worth around 380 - 400k and it’s a doer upper - fucking crazy

They have both passed away now and I’m giving my son a huge chunk of my inheritance to enable him to get a house as they would not be able to afford one even though he works full time and earns around £26k

I'm of the much maligned Baby Boomer generation and yes we have done alright regarding house prices.

But whatever you sell your house for, goes into the next one, you don't get to keep the rise unless you're downsizing massively.

My accrued wealth will pass to my millennial children

I'm confused by these points, are you saying they are disadvantages?

I don't think it's a good thing that many of the younger s generations future "wealth" is not dependent on jobs or income but even & whether they can inherit.

@Islamorada

The millennials are not the most resilient of the generations. There would of course be exceptions. See what their priorities are. I cringe 😬

This is such a cliche. I cringe at this 'snowflake' narrative which is what you're alluding too.

I also cringe at the entitlement in generations who feel they've 'earned' their second homes, property portfolios and 2, 3 or 4 times a year holidays and don't realise the impact this has on others.

Meanwhile millennials get shafted from both sides - repaying student loans, ridiculous childcare costs, saving for deposits, crazy rents and now higher NI to pay for your social care (or Brexit lets be honest - which older generations voted for more than most)

@Thecurliestwurly

THIS. Thank you. Why the progressive press buys into this Govt-excusing narrative beats me

@Oldandcobwebbed

It shouldn't be about blame, and all that you say as to facts is correct. But blame (and sweeping generalisation) is all too often exactly the terms in which it is couched, especially on social media

And I personally never, never suggest to anyone that it's about trying harder or economising. I know we'vee been lucky, and we are passing on that luck in big chunks to our children and others right now.

Of course every generation has their struggles

I think life is easier now in many ways but getting in the property ladder isn’t

Huge difference now is that we have social media where all can discuss this and compare to what generations had before this is relatively new and a big pity party starts

If social media was around before you would have had different complaints

We expect life to get better and better, more opportunities for all, more money, more choices to live how we want to live this is also something only recent generations have been privileged with

There are certainly down sides at the moment but it’s not all soon and gloom the lifestyle many of us lead and our children will put grandparents could only dream of

[quote wellards]@Annoyedanddissapointed I had that £5 ikea side table. That didn't exist for my parents. They also had this black & white telly in a spare room with push buttons that refused to die! stuff isn't made to last these days. [/quote]
Also, tech has built in obsolescence and house fashions/colours change virtually annually.

It’s about women having more opportunities imo. My grandmother had 13 children, there was no chance of her being able to have any sort of life. My parents had 3 children, my mum was unable to work but she did manage to have a little bit of a life beyond the domestic drudgery, she had friends and went out sometimes. My generation is having 1 or 0 children because women want to be able to work and enjoy their lives. You can afford childcare for 1 child, it’s easier to make arrangements for 1 child, people are more willing to take 1 child off your hands for a bit. You can help 1 child get on the housing ladder and give them opportunities. If I had a second child I’d be unable to afford childcare and would be stuck at home for the foreseeable future. Childcare would literally have to be free for me to consider another child, because I’m not giving up my entire life.

People saying young people wouldn’t accept living with second hand furniture and no tv nowadays…
Most of our furniture and kitchen stuff was second hand given to us by family, the rest is IKEA. We have a tv but only because we inherited it and we don’t have a working aerial so we don’t really use it - would never have bought one. AND we moved away from the area we’re from to a less nice one to buy a house, which resulted in an hour and a half commute each way for me. All to buy a 2 up 2 down for 250k - almost 3x the price that my parents bought a 4 bed detached in the 90s.

And to the PP who said student loan repayments are only a small amount, I don’t class 15% of my income as a small amount!

I'm a boomer, and while much of my adulthood was a struggle, I think things are worse now.

The biggest factor imo is the cost of housing. Rents are so high that most people can't raise a deposit until they're much older than my generation was, and the deposits are much bigger, relative to earnings, because of the absurd price of housing.

However, many of my peers couldn't buy until they were in their 30s, lots didn't learn to drive until they were late 20s/30s and couldn't afford to run cars anyway.

I was lucky enough to buy my first house for £24k on a 100% mortgage. But the interest rates were massive compared to now, I had had to have a lodger for the first 8 years to cover the costs and had 3 jobs at one time, to pay the mortgage. I didn't have a single item of new furniture until 16 years after I left home. Everything was 2nd hand, including my cooker, washing machine etc. I've still never spent more than £2.3k on a car!

Successive governments have failed to do anything about housing. Hardly any social housing has been built and rent has spiralled beyond belief. Demand for housing is rising because people are living longer and family homes are often occupied by single old people, like me. So I'm part of the problem. But after grafting all my life, and still being unable to afford to retire after 49 years of non-stop work, I feel quite entitled to stay in the 2-bedroom house that I've paid for.

When I die, most of the wealth in my house will go into a trust for my late DP's grand-daughter, so that she will be able to have a home of her own before she otherwise might have done, and some of it will go to her mother, so she and DGD can have a nice home for DGD to grow up in, instead of a rented flat on a busy main road with no outdoor space.

My DSS has his own house, courtesy of a trust fund from his GM, and will be a millionaire twice over when his mother dies, so he has no need of my money as well. He knows this, and is ok with it.

I don't know what more I can do really, but I do think life is a struggle for young people starting out.

@Thecurliestwurly

Oh god, I see this thread has already descended into 'well when I was younger I lived in a shed and I was ok'. Many people live in damp overcrowded flats now and I'm sure when many people were in their damp flat years ago they would have expected some progress and this to be a thing of the past. I certainly would want things to change for my children.

Can we please stop blaming each other? These threads are often derailed by these sorts of comments to draw attention away from the fact that this GOVERNMENT IS SHIT. They have seen these problems coming and have done nothing and they were there way before COVID came along.

Many would have voted for these governments though. The English love affair with the Tories has a lot to answer for.

My theory is that reproduction is generally driven by societal pressure and women. There's less societal pressure to have children and women, with careers, money, contraception and a lack of need to rely on men are finding other things they'd rather do than have kids. Men could always take it or leave it.

Having children is classically pretty independent of economic status.
Average number of children goes down as level of education goes up. You can also look to the relative fecundity of more economically developed countries.
Housing is a problem, but I don't think it's the significant factor here.

I'm 31, I pay a mortgage but I haven't really been convinced by children. They cost a lot of money, undoubtedly add a lot more work and stress to a life and relationships. Seeing someone's dog has always made me smile more than seeing someone's baby. The only real positive that I have for having children is that most people seem to do it so there must be some value to it, but I also feel that most people reproduce without giving it much thought.

I sometimes wonder whether people want luxury things (eg smartphones, large tvs etc) because at least these things are within reach and can give a tangible result of hard work.

they're hardly luxuries. A new smarthphone costs about a £100, barely used TVs go for even less, plus a tv lasts for a decade or more.

Some of the replies here honestly disgust me and make me question whether any of you actually know any millennials, or if you're just making judgements based on the tabloids.

Sure previous generations worked hard to pay their mortgage, but house prices were 2-3 times annual salary not 10+ times like they are now. Many jobs now require degrees when they didn't used to (eg marketing) and there is no longer free uni education. The job market has changed so in many industries you're expected to literally work for free as an intern in order to gain enough experience to get an entry level paid role. We have seen the rise of the 'side hustle' because millennials work for nothing or for very little so it's normal to have multiple jobs or start your own business on the side, anyone who tells me millennials don't work hard is just out of touch with reality.

Low birth rate also likely due to millennials having to live at home longer because of above reasons, who wants to have a baby at home. The entire generation is completely infantilised by having to live at home longer, or be reliant on parents helping financially, by it taking so long to start to be taken seriously and promoted in many industries because you can spend years working hard before you rise above a junior role, after interning and finally getting something entry level.
Childcare is ludicrously expensive and if you can barely pay your rent (most people have given up on the idea of ever being approved for a mortgage) how can you go part time or pay for childcare to support a child? I'm desperate to have children, have been for years. Can't do it financially. All of my extra money goes into savings for a house deposit. Would have to use all that money for a child. So I have to choose.

I rent. Almost all of my furniture is secondhand or free. Would love to buy a fixer upper but either too expensive or unmortgageable. My wedding cost £2.5k.

Yes all generations have issues. All generations work hard. But I'm fed up of the media and people on here deriding millennials when many of you had chances we don't get. Free uni education. The opportunity to get a mortgage on a crappy house. No need to pull the ladder up behind you and moan about millennials owning smartphones ffs.