Near drowning

[aibuprofile]

My daughter was taking part in a swim lesson with school last week. During this lesson she panicked in 2m deep water and the swim teacher tried to throw life saving aids to her but she was going under and could not grab them. The lifeguard sounded the alarm and dived in and pulled her out. She was ok.
But... I was not told about this until the end of the school day. When I was told it was in a very casual way and a brief version of events given. This version does NOT match those of several other children there or indeed my own daughters (who is very sensible and not dramatic).

I am angry that I was not at least called. I'm angry that when I phoned the school to discuss (took a few moments for it to sink in when I was told in person, by which time the teacher had walked off) I was fobbed off and told she did not nearly drown and that her head only went under water for a brief moment.

AIBU to be angry with the school for the lack of communication and would I be unreasonable to go over to the swimming pool and ask for their version of events?

Sounds like the incodent was handled as you would hope, but the fact it was minimised and communication around it is defensive I would not be happy with.
I imagine the school/pool are nervous a parent might try to pin blame or escalate the issue (which happens) but that is a massive assumption and actually if they had been open and factual you would probably have felt more confident that they could handle an unexpected event than before.
I think the post-incident communication is the focus of your complaint here. And yes, I think that is perfectly valid as minimising and being opaque breaks down trust.

She should definitely not have been in the deep end as a non swimmer and it would absolutely be reasonable to raise your concerns with school - procedures need to be reviewed urgently if this sort of thing is happening - all well and good that the lifeguard saved the day but this sort of experience can freak a child out for life.

I also think you should have been called at the time - ie as soon as the lesson was over - and again you would be absolutely reasonable to ask why you were not.

The DC will inevitably overdramatise -it’s what 8yos do - but they should also be listened to alongside the reports from swim staff and the school. It sounds like a scary experience and steps need to be taken to ensure it doesn’t happen again!

As an aside though, based on personal experience, don’t rely on school swim lessons - they tick the curriculum box but in reality achieve very little. If you can afford it, pay for smaller class size private swim lessons. I know they are expensive but if it’s in any way manageable, do it. It’s worth cancelling any other extra curricular activity you’re paying for if money is tight, and funding private swim lessons instead.

I hope your DD is ok OP.

@YellowMonday

This needs to be raised as a serious complaint.

Secondary drowning is a significant risk if water has been taken on. She needed to be very closely watched, and you should have been notified immediately and/or a medical review to check her lungs.

This. I once worked with someone who dealt with personal injury claims and the description of secondary drowning has never left me.

What I'm not happy about is her being in water that is 2m deep when she can't swim, that there was no swim teacher actually in the pool

Concentrate on this when you speak to the school. She shouldn't have been in that water when she is unable to swim.

The rest of it is all a bit he said, she said. Children are prone to exaggeration. The incident must have seemed very dramatic indeed to the others. Perhaps the school's version is correct - she panicked and her head went under for a moment. The other children will have seen the lifeguard jump in and then the whole thing turns into nearly drowning etc. And for your own daughter it must have been horrible.

Do swimming teachers actually go in the pool with the children? I've never seen this happen, apart from with very young children and I've spent a lot of time in pools. Normally they stay on the side and shout instructions at them!

Anyway, I do think you need to talk to the school about how to move forward as your child will likely be very anxious the next time she goes swimming.

@HarebrightCedarmoon it's terrifying how people can go from a light cough to respiratory arrest. When I was at uni, I was a volunteer lifeguard (Australia - beaches) and I saw this many times. The worst I saw was a young child where we advised the parents to seek medical review which was refused, as he "appeared fine".

Two hours later we were performing CPR and attempting to secure his airway waiting for the ambulance. 5 days in PICU and 4 days on a ward, luckily survived without any long term physical impacts.

YADNBU. The school should have phoned you as soon as they could. I can’t understand why they didn’t. That, along with their downplaying of the incident, isn’t acceptable, and the two things could be related.

I’d want to know exactly what happened - from the lifeguard and from the teacher involved. I’d also want to know why she was out of her depth; why I wasn’t informed immediately and what checks they did to make sure she didn’t need further attention.

Far better to contact a parent unnecessarily than to leave it. It just adds to the upset. My DD suffered a head injury during swimming and I wasn’t told until the end of the day either. Moreover, the version of events I got was garbled and absolutely minimal. My daughter actually had concussion and had to betaken to A&E later.

Agree with pp - she needs to be seen by a doctor, secondary drowning is a real concern if she breathed in water.

You are not being unreasonable. Drowning is very easy and what is even easier it that people are put off swimming for life by bad experiences. You deserve answers for the sake of your child and the other children in her class.

But this is Mumsnet where to some people children are never to be believed; teachers never fuck up and certainly never lie to cover their arses; people should always be grateful to teachers and other professionals whose job it is to be responsible for children; and there is always someone (@saladovercrispsanyday, the first responder to your post) who thinks that you will be incapable of raising the matter in a calm concerned manner and will "go in with all guns blazing."

I haven't noticed anyone saying you will be regarded as "that mother" in the staff room but that's another thing that horrifies some PPs here.

@Macncheeseballs

I'd be thankful she'd been saved

But this should never have happened. When you leave a child at school or school activity, you assume they are safe and have measures in place to prevent this kind of stuff from happening.

My son had to go to hospital in similar circumstances. Secondary drowning is a real thing and if she was under water long enough to ingest water you should have been called.

Also, get your child some proper swim lessons.

I'm shocked that they're in water 2m deep, that's ridiculous, even for adult learners.

You must feel very upset to have discovered your daughter had a close call and that you were not informed until much later.

Quite right to let the school know. I'd make an appointment, go in, ask for the facts (there should be an incident report) and let them know how you felt about what happened and how you'd really have liked to have known sooner. I'm guessing it just hasn't occurred to them. Likely the message was passed along and it was the job of someone who hadn't been there to tell you. It'd be helpful for them to have your feedback so they can review their practice.

I think you need to follow the lead of your dds 8 year old “sensible and not dramatic” friends tbh

A lot of fuss over nothing. What do you think pool incident log is going to say? Are you going to interview the lifeguard. What are you going to do if you feel the school haven't told you accurately what happened?

Frightening.

Who told you the water was 2m deep?

What do you think pool incident log is going to say?

I expect it would say something like this :
School swimming lesson here today
8 year old girl in difficulty - out of her depth
Her school teacher throws bouyancy aids to her but she is unable to reach them
Pool alarm sounded and lifeguard enters water to bring her to safety
Child given into the care of her teacher

I think school should have phoned you earlier.

Did you find out about the 2m depth from your dd or school? It seems very deep for a non swimmer. Often they will take them a little out of their depth to teach them, especially once they can swim a bit as otherwise all they do is put their feet down. 2m seems mad though!

I’d hope the lifeguard understands about secondary drowning, but wouldn’t expect the school to know about that.

Is it a private school? My friend works in one and had a similar incident to yours. She is not a qualified swimming teacher, nor had she had any experience or done any training, but she was asked to teach a group in her year how to swim. I was gobsmacked when I heard this as thought it sounded pretty unsafe. So it may be an idea to check if it was a “proper” swimming teacher.

In my experience most teachers teach from the side once they get to above infant age as they can see better and the kids can generally follow instructions. I agree I would enquire about the depth issue. It may be they need to tweak their risk assessments.

Glad she was ok.

@Macncheeseballs

I'd be thankful she'd been saved

This comment is insensitive and stupid.

@TooMuchPaper

What do you think pool incident log is going to say?

I expect it would say something like this :
School swimming lesson here today
8 year old girl in difficulty - out of her depth
Her school teacher throws bouyancy aids to her but she is unable to reach them
Pool alarm sounded and lifeguard enters water to bring her to safety
Child given into the care of her teacher

This.

Swim teachers do not go in the pool as a matter of course. Some can't even swim themselves, that is why we have lifeguards! Of course, some teachers are also qualified as lifeguards or a lesser qualification which illustrates that they can save a pupil if they need to.

However, I agree you may want to impress on the school that non/weak swimmers should not be anywhere near the deep end of the pool.

And it's not a last resort for lifeguards to go into the pool - that is what they are there for. It doesn't mean it was a serious incident. A serious incident would be the one I remember seeing on the BBC show SOS some years (decades) ago when a girl's hair got stuck in a filter. She was stuck underwater until they could get some shears to cut her out. Lifeguards kept going down to give her air. Now that was an incident - and they performed admirably.

As a non-swimmer traumatised by school swimming lessons, I really feel for you and your daughter, it sounds scary. I would talk to the manager just for my own peace of mind.

On a side note, it's important that everyone is aware that a drowning person doesn't splash and thrash dramatically, it's often not obvious at first that they're in trouble. This means that there can be a delay in getting help (although obviously a lifeguard will be trained to spot the signs).

That all sounds horrendous and I would definitely believe your child. Poor thing, she must have been very frightened and it sounds as though the school are trying to play it down, rather than accept, acknowledge and respect her feelings.

Due to my own experience of school swimming (still traumatized today), I have done my utmost to ensure that mine could swim well before school swimming kicked in.
I realize not everyone can do this and Covid has hampered lots of plans but there was no way they were going to suffer like I did.

Go and ask the lifeguard/pool attendant for their version.

Yes, you should have been told earlier but I expect the swim teacher wasn't authorised to ring you.

Did you have her checked by a medic when you found out OP? I wouldnt be usual for the swim teacher to be in the pool, and I wouldn't think to call this a 'near drowning' though it must have been very upsetting for your DD (and you).

I'd be motivated to have further discussions with the relevant teaching staff to understand further what exactly transpired in terms of actual water depth, what first aid was administered, length of the incident, why the aids were 'thrown', by whom and to what end and so on and then form opinions on how it sits.

As an aside I wouldn't use or support the narrative that anyone nearly drowned (not suggesting you are or will be) and would try to get her back into the water asap. Ultimately the best preventative to getting into trouble in the water is to learn to swim and have confidence in the water.

The same happened to my son when he was 7. He's diabetic and his supply teacher didn't give him the mini mars bar he was supposed to have before swimming to keep his blood sugar up. I never found out if she didn't know or couldn't be bothered.

My son went under in deep water and no one noticed apart from two friends who managed to alert the lifeguard who jumped in and fished him out.

The school didn't tell me. My son's friends did. And when I went in to school about it I found my son asleep on his classroom floor. When I questioned the supply teacher said she thought he must be tired. Clearly no one had briefed her on his diabetes.

I tried to get the school to acknowledge how badly my son had been let down but they stonewalled. At the time my DH was dying at home (he died a couple of months later) and my capacity to fight a battle was much diminished so I never got a satisfactory result. It's one of my few major regrets.

Tbh I would trust the story of the lifeguard, swimming instructor etc more than your daughter as she was panicking and it probably felt worse and longer than it actually was.

I'm sure if anything really concerning happened they would have taken her for medical attention and called you at the time.

You were told on the same day when they saw you, I think that's alright.