Near drowning

[aibuprofile]

My daughter was taking part in a swim lesson with school last week. During this lesson she panicked in 2m deep water and the swim teacher tried to throw life saving aids to her but she was going under and could not grab them. The lifeguard sounded the alarm and dived in and pulled her out. She was ok.
But... I was not told about this until the end of the school day. When I was told it was in a very casual way and a brief version of events given. This version does NOT match those of several other children there or indeed my own daughters (who is very sensible and not dramatic).

I am angry that I was not at least called. I'm angry that when I phoned the school to discuss (took a few moments for it to sink in when I was told in person, by which time the teacher had walked off) I was fobbed off and told she did not nearly drown and that her head only went under water for a brief moment.

AIBU to be angry with the school for the lack of communication and would I be unreasonable to go over to the swimming pool and ask for their version of events?

[NeonKayak]

@thelastgoldeneagle

Just to correct your wrong information and reassure readers about this First Responder qualification :
UK lifeguard training is 5-6 days and covers

The Lifeguard and the Law
Swimming Pool, Hazards and Control Measures
Swimming Pool Supervision
Intervention and Rescue
Rescue of a Casualty with a Suspected Spinal Injury
Emergency Action Plans
Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR)
First Aid
Automated External Defibrillation (AED)

Pre-requisites are also required :

Jump/dive into deep water
Swim 50 metres in less than 60 seconds
Swim 100 metres continuously on front and back in deep water
Tread water for 30 seconds
Surface dive to the floor of the pool
Climb out unaided without ladder/steps and where the pool design permits

Lifeguarding isn’t just about vigilance in the pool, it also covers health and safety on site (slippery surfaces everywhere within the building), exemplary customer service, pool chemical testing, cleaning, advice, encouragement, .....

In my area (Northamptonshire) our council owned pools have full and part time lifeguards with ages ranging from 20s to over 50. (I am over 50 myself and was offered a position, couldn’t accept due to other commitments but working on changing that this year).

I can only speak for myself, but given the appalling low pay rates, I was interested in this work specifically because I’m naturally hyper-vigilant around water, enjoy customer service, and find great satisfaction in seeing swimmers of all ages find confidence in the water. I imagine lifeguards are drawn to this vocation for similar reasons, because the entry level assessment and qualification isn’t a walk in the park, and the pay rates are minimum wage in most pools!

So, to reassure customers, some lifeguards may look like ‘sixth formers’, but they have all had to pass the same RLSS course to achieve their qualification, and that requires huge personal vocational commitment, and hundreds of pounds in course fees (between £200-300).

[RestingPandaFace]

@Essexmum321

Something similar happened in one of our swimming lessons a couple of days ago, can anyone tell me if the other parents should have been told? (My child is also a non swimmer and the pool a little bit to deep for her to reach the bottom)

I don’t see that there’s an express requirement to tell other parents, but it might have been sensible in case other children had mentioned it.

[Essexmum321]

Something similar happened in one of our swimming lessons a couple of days ago, can anyone tell me if the other parents should have been told? (My child is also a non swimmer and the pool a little bit to deep for her to reach the bottom)

[newnameday]

@ClaryFairchild

How worrying. I'd be upset about not being told about it too. There is also the risk of dry drowning so PLEASE be vigilant.

Look for any of the following symptoms, even up to 72 hours later:

Changes in behaviour
Fatigue
Lethargy
Coughing
Shortness of breath
Pale skin

This is signs of secondary drowning. Dry drowning is immediate and basically the throat spasms and closes so that you "drown" without water entering lungs.

Secondary drowning is definitely something to be cautious of.

However, it happened last week so I believe the child should be fine in this instance but OP definitely should have been told earlier!

[newnameday]

@thelastgoldeneagle

Posters talking about secondary drowning, you do realise lifeguards are first aid trained and would know all there was to know about that right?

In England, lifeguards have three days' training. To cover everything they will need to know - first aid, how to save peple, what to do if someone is in distress. A lot are sixth formers (here anyway). I wouldn't bank on them knowing 'all there is to know'.

You learn a heck of a lot when doing a life guarding course, including things such as the sections of the spine and different types of paralysis. It's not as straight forward as "pull them out the pool and do CPR" you need to know risks of spinal injury, securing the spine, different types of drowning, COSHH, all sorts.

[ClaryFairchild]

How worrying. I'd be upset about not being told about it too. There is also the risk of dry drowning so PLEASE be vigilant.

Look for any of the following symptoms, even up to 72 hours later:

Changes in behaviour
Fatigue
Lethargy
Coughing
Shortness of breath
Pale skin

[EBearhug]

Why would a swimmer want to stand on the side shouting instructions?

It's easier to observe a group from the side. I only ever taught in the water for individuals and pairs. If you have more, it's less easy to see what's going on if you're also in the water.

I agree you should be asking why a non-swimmer was in deep water and what will they be doing to make sure it won't happen again.

[limitedperiodonly]

@FindingMeno Teachers should always get in with non-swimmers and if any teacher didn't want to do it I'd go to another one.

Why would a swimmer want to stand on the side shouting instructions? You should be there to giving confidence to the beginners and teaching them to be brave enough to put their faces in the water and hold the side and their breath as they kick or correct the posture of the ones who getting it and encouraging the others to strike out for lengths.

The non-swimmers don't have to be little ones. My parents sent me to group swimming lessons aged six. It wasn't a safety thing. People bang on about swimming being a life skill but it's not. It was more a social thing for me. For the first time I was excellent at a physical act - fit and strong where I'd been graceless at ballet and gymnastics unlike the other girls. And I made friends.

My mum was so impressed by my teacher, Hester, she booked lessons with her and learned to swim aged nearly 50 - I was a late baby. It was a huge thing for my mum. She was terrified of water but she saw Hester and me and wanted to do it.

I loved my mum's scared but brave little face the first time my dad and I took her out swimming in the sea on holiday with her flowery swimming cap. We held her by both sides and promised not to let her go but of course we did and she did it all by herself and was so proud.

That's what people who know how to swim should do with non-swimmers. Not scoff and say it's not a big deal. It's a huge deal and being dumped in the water is bloody dangerous and any swimmer knows that.

[gah2teenagers]

DD2 is a teacher. DGS will be withdrawn from school swimming sessions. Nuff said.

[FindingMeno]

@limitedperiodonly to the "swimming teachers don't get in the pool with you" possibly "dolts" who've worked as swimming teachers and lifeguards for years and years, both successfully and safely.
There is a better and safer overview from the side of the pool.
Yes, sometimes teachers might get in, particularly with little ones, but not unless the session is lifeguarded.

[Plumtree391]

Same here, limitedperiodonly. This is a child of eight we are talking about. It was a traumatic experience!

[limitedperiodonly]

Every single time on Mumsnet I am amazed by dolts who say things like: "You're making a fuss" and "swimming teachers don't get in the pool with you" and "if you're drowning in 2m they stand on the side and throw you a rubber ring."

I don't know what kind of swimming lessons their parents paid for but I'm glad they weren't mine.

[limitedperiodonly]

@AuntMargo

Your being dramatic, if she'd almost drowned she would have been taken to hospital and would have need hospital treatment !

Sometimes I think people do this for shits and giggles. I really don't want to consider the alternative.

[azimuth299]

YNBU this swimming lesson got so out of control that a lifeguard had to dive in and fish a child out!

If you had posted that you were teaching your own daughter how to swim and you did such a bad job that a lifeguard had to dive in, these posters wouldn't be calling it a non-incident and over dramatic.

It's very serious that the emergency protocol had to be introduced to avoid the child's death.

I would be really cross, both because they let a non swimmer into deep water and because they didn't inform you straight away and tried to downplay it.

[RestingPandaFace]

@FindingMeno

In a situation where there is a swimming teacher and lifeguard present, the correct course of events is for the lifeguard to address the situation while the swimming teacher clears the pool.
If the session is non lifeguarded it is because the teacher is qualified to deal with an incident. The teacher would press the panic button for immediate assistance. If the teacher needed to enter the pool, the other pupils would be told to clear the pool in order to ensure their safety.
It is always preferable for a lifeguard/ teacher not to enter the water unless the situation obviously demands it, or other suitable rescue methods have failed.
Imo.

That’s absolutely what I was always taught.

Diving into the water is always the last resort; reaching and throwing things always comes first, and that would be the basis of my question - why couldn’t the teacher reach her with a pole?

In this case, if the child was out of reach something has gone wrong in the lead up to what happened.

[FindingMeno]

In a situation where there is a swimming teacher and lifeguard present, the correct course of events is for the lifeguard to address the situation while the swimming teacher clears the pool.
If the session is non lifeguarded it is because the teacher is qualified to deal with an incident. The teacher would press the panic button for immediate assistance. If the teacher needed to enter the pool, the other pupils would be told to clear the pool in order to ensure their safety.
It is always preferable for a lifeguard/ teacher not to enter the water unless the situation obviously demands it, or other suitable rescue methods have failed.
Imo.

[diddl]

Whatever the other kids are saying doesn't alter the fact that a non swimmer was in 2m water!

[621CustardCream438]

I’d be extremely unhappy I wasn’t told immediately because I’d have wanted to get her medically checked out. I’d also want to comfort my child after what would be a distressing experience. They are being way too casual.

I’d be asking to see the risk assessment (I bet it says non swimmers don’t go out of their depth), asking for an explanation of how a non swimmer was in 2m deep water and I’d probably be making a written complaint to the school.

[ArabellaScott]

I'm sorry, OP, glad your daughter is okay. Children shouldn't be left unsupervised in a pool, especially if they can't swim.

Secondary drowning would have been inhaling water, not swallowing.

But will leave this here for info on 'dry drowning' or 'secondary drowning' - a subject worth raising awareness of:

www.todaysparent.com/family/family-health/secondary-drowning/

[LouLou198]

I wouldn't have been happy. Are the school aware of secondary drowning? Were they monitoring her for this all afternoon? These are the questions I would be asking.

[littleny]

Forgot to say...if it is that your daughter remembers it a lot worse than it actually was (and I'm not saying this is the case), all the more reason to have a talk with her mummy after the distressing event!!

[FindingMeno]

Near drowning should warrant a medical check.
I would not be at all happy.
There is a risk of "secondary drowning".

[dworky]

@Macncheeseballs

I'd be thankful she'd been saved

Of course but the point is that young children shouldn't be unsupervised in or around water to be able to get in such a predicament!

[littleny]

I hope your daughter is ok! I was in a similar situation when I was younger and my school mates came and helped me...it's extremely frightening. I enjoy swimming now although I am extremely cautious.

I agree they should have told you at the earliest opportunity. The fact that there was significant intervention (i.e. the lifeguard jumping in) obviously means she was in danger and I personally would've liked the opportunity to speak to my child to make sure he/she is ok. She had the rest of the school day thinking about this without reassurance from a loved one. For some children, this is not ok.

I agree with both sides...yes officials can downplay events and yes sometimes things seem worse than they are to children - but you know your child best at the end of the day and this situation centres around her.

If she is a non-swimmer...she should not have been in water that depth. Full Stop.

[HarrietsChariot]

I wouldn’t set too much store by the children’s retelling of what happened, a couple of times people have been “trapped in canoes and nearly drowned” when the reality is that they fell straight out and popped up within a couple of seconds when people panic and get the accompanying adrenaline rush it can skew their perception, particularly of time.

This is a good point. I was nearly drowned at school back in the early 90s. I couldn't swim but the teachers made us all go in the school pool for PE. Basically it was just a free-for-all with me standing by the edge of the pool wanting to get out. Someone swum under me to knock my legs out (on purpose I found out afterwards), I went sprawling face first into the water. Like I say, I couldn't swim, I just went down and then up again, gasped for air, down and up again, gasped for air, down a third time and fortunately I came back up almost upright and got my feet on the bottom, and managed to grab the pipe thing running around the edge of the pool.

While it was happening time slowed down drastically. Honestly I felt it was going on for thirty seconds, I can still remember it with perfect clarity - normally I can't keep my eyes open underwater, on that occasion they stayed open automatically. When I popped up for air I clearly heard someone shout "There's Harriet, she can't swim" the first time and "Get the teacher" the second. A couple of other children who knew I was about to get dunked watched me and said it was a) hilarious and b) no more than ten seconds start to finish.