to think there is an inverse relationship between how little money people have and how much they are willing to spend on presents for their children

[Twiglett]

am truly gobsmacked at some of the things that people I know are buying for their children

truly and utterly, spoilt bastard, gobsmacked

why spend that much money? why?

I would class my sister as wealthy, she announced to Mum (but not us) that she's epnding a max of £5 a head on the kids this year in teh fa,mily (that includes her poor DS!) but asked for a gift costing £15 from us before hand..... which i am glad we bought poor little bugger.

Something that occurred to me:

Why in MC attitudes and all that (judgemental I know didnt know how to phrase it) is it OK to be in debt for a house that's bigger than you need, a car that's far flashier than anyone could ever require or a fortnight in malibu- but if you're in debt ebcause you want to get your LO a nice gift and maybe give him loads of Christmases filled with special meories (and kids DO like resents reagrdless of how much epoepl moralise) then that's bad? Complete skew whiff imo. far mroe time for the aprent who goes that extra mile to put a smile on kiddiwonks face than the one with a palace and a single gift from Aldi because of the mortgage payments

"is it OK to be in debt for a house that's bigger than you need, a car that's far flashier than anyone could ever require or a fortnight in malibu...."

Now there's something I'd like to know the answer to as well peachy.

I agree kerry. Last year DS ran into the room with my extended family arrayed and did a star jump backwards to show off his new Liverpool shirt with Gerrard on the back. And then there was the year when he was about 3 when he kept pulling his trousers down to show everyone his new spiderman underpants and since they were a 5 pack he could do it every day for a while. The funny thing was that I realised I didn't have enough things for his stocking so went to Woolworths on Christmas Eve, with him, and bought them without him realising (would never get away with that with 3yo DD) and they ended up being his favourite thing

ahhh now we're talking serviceable and unserviceable debt (ie those that can be paid off and those that can't)

and I'll warrant that there are as many, if not more, people in unaffordable houses who will have problems if (when?) a credit crunch comes

but then we're all 1 accident / unfortunate event away from living in the gutter tbh

Been in the gutter, lost the house when DH got ill

It don't matter, none of it. Long as you all ahve each other. ther est is choice.

ALthough its not that great- the welfare state - once you've had that car crash.....

have a look at this "almost all (9 out of 10) families with disabled children are struggling financially.

I can really believe it. DS1's condition has cost us thousands- it has put us massively into debt (I counted it up yesterday and almost passed out).

He's only 8. We have years of it to come.

(Was actually panicking about interest rate rises twig- and realising we're quite close to the debt being unserviceable).

You know what, reading this thread has actually made me decide to change my spendthrift ways. Spending money on my DTS is not the same as spoiling them. They are only 3yo, they love receiving presents and that wondrous innocence will only lasts until they are teenagers, if not before then.

I actually feel embarrassed now that I only deemed them worthy of a £3.50 gift because of my indifference to what Christmas means to them and thank goodness my DH was enlightened enough to buy them something that they will really appreciate (bikes).

That's the great thing about MN. You think you have entrenched views but it takes a couple of posts to make you reflect and reconsider.

Thanks MerryKerryXmas for your post Thu 06-Dec-07 14:09:28.

I meant thrifty ways

I'm a bit conflicted on this one. My ds is only 18mo so its not an issue for us yet, but observing my nephew, I feel there's a difference between getting kids what they really want for Christmas and just overloading them with presents to make the parents feel good.

I remember a couple of Christmases ago in such vivid detail when my nephew (then 5) had just so many presents, none of which he really looked at or seemed pleased about and it just seemed really sad. He also gets new things all the time throughout the year and nothing seems to have any magic about it for him. In contrast, my memories of Christmas are of being so pleased to get what I really wanted and I can still remember getting a bike I wanted (not £600!!)

I certainly don't want to impose my anti-materialist views on my ds by sponsoring a goat in Africa for him, but equally I want him to get the magic of receiving something he really wants but not getting so much it all blends into nothingness.

(I don't think any of this should relate to how much money you have or don't have but I do think its sad that so many people end up in dire financial straits after Christmas. (Just talk to the CAB about the calls they get to their debt line after xmas.)

spokette, that's absolutely lovely

Canadiandream, this thread made me realise that I was imposing my anti-materialistic on my DTS inappropriately.

I have not mentioned Christmas to them but they have picked up on the excitment and anticipation from their friends at nursery. Now they see all the Christmas lights going up and they are even more excited.

I've tried to be nonchalent about the whole thing but DH, rightly, says that I need to allow them to indulge in their fantasy and excitment.

I will ensure that they understand the symbolic meaning of Christmas (they go to Sunday School) but I will embrace their innocent ecstasy and anticipation too!

Thanks ladies. This thread has been very humbling .

Ah that's a point. We don't have holidays either, which is why I tend to spend happily on days out and at xmas. Probably a lot cheaper doing that tbh than having a holiday.

Spokette - I think you're right - its all about balance isn't it? Don't we all remember how, as kids, you get ideas in your head about something you really really want and then that magic on Christmas day of getting it!!! (And how it stays with you when you don't get it! I still remember not getting a girls world cos my parents thought they were horrible!)

But equally I think its so important that kids grow up being grateful for what they get and understanding that its not just, or even mainly, material things that matter. I remember even as a child understanding that the kids who got everything weren't necessarily the luckiest ones... My dh's parents used to give them ridiculous amounts of pressies (and in that case it was cos his dad grew up desperately poor and didn't wnat that for his kids) and they got into huge amounts of debt over it which made his mum sick with worry and there's no way they wouldn't have been just as happy with less, or actually happier cos wouldn't have been so stressful for his mum.

spokette

Peachy - I don't think it is acceptable to be in debt for a flash car or a holiday. A house is different as it is an investment, in the long term. Also, you need to live somewhere and if you don't buy then presumably you would have to pay rent.

I don't think it's just poor people who spend a lot of money on stuff for their kids

Mind you if you've got a household income of £150k a year, a £349 quad bike is going to be a tiny percentage of it, so that's absolutely fine according to some on this thread.

Maybe the middle classes object to poor people buying Wii's and big screen TVs, because if everybody's got them, they stop being status symbols, so they'll have to find other ways to demonstrate their superiority.

It is definitely an investment swedes but there are those folk who stretch themselves to buy the slightly bigger house in a slithtly nicer area than they can really afford or really need .... with the obvious potential risk of losing the roof over their heads.

Acquisitiveness and greed comes into house purchase too.

You know when you play tennis on Xmas day Swede, it's not on your own tennis court is it?