to think there is an inverse relationship between how little money people have and how much they are willing to spend on presents for their children

[Twiglett]

am truly gobsmacked at some of the things that people I know are buying for their children

truly and utterly, spoilt bastard, gobsmacked

why spend that much money? why?

I knew that you knew that I knew that you two knew because none of us are new

Me too!

well I'm on benefits and have spent £40 in total on DS for Christmas; he won't know how much I've spent and tbh, I could have done with spending less but I felt awful for spending so little in comparrison to most people and felt he needed a decent gift to talk about at school

I know - I know - it is no one else's business but well... I had to

I spose £40 isn't TOO bad to spend, but it is a lot to me - he will appreciate whether I spent £4 or £40

Spokette you speak utter bollocks when you say: "Similarly for those parents who spend more than they have or those who are shamelessly profligate. It is more about satisfying their needs or bolstering their egos."

I bet it's a barrel of laughs in your household at Christmas time

Thank feck your husband stepped in and bought your children bikes, poor kids

I don't think those who express discomfort at the amount poor people spend are in any way patronsiing or ridiculing them.

Surely its about the fact that these are the people woh are exploited by the tat which is marketed mercilessly to us day in day out.
These people are being taken for a ride and are the ones who can least afford it.

But yes,when life is shit,then the fags and booze or the sparkly top make you forget about it for a bit.
Read George Orwell's 'On the road to Wigan pier'. All he noted about life in Britain in the 30s holds true today.

"But then again, people are entitled to spend their money as they chose to a degree."

Expat, I agree...except you needed a full stop after 'choose'.

Perhaps that is so Moondog - but it is the subtext that jars somewhat. These are the poor people who are too thick to see through the phony adverising, whilst we intelligent ones see it for what it is!

Why is someone who is poor more likely to be stupid?

they're not stupid at all.

people like to live it up every now and again no matter what.

Hey, the rich think that expensive face creams actually work or that buying fur coats make them look attractive. Intelligence is classless.

Someone who is poor is generally diasadvantaged, whether intellectually, economically or socially.

That's generally why they are poor.
These are the sort of people who believe that their dd will be a social pariah if she doesn't get the My Little One legged Unicorn Revolving Make Up Head (RRP £499).

It's poncy middle class lefties like me who are happy to throw a second hand vidoe and a bit of fudge into an old sock and leave it at that.

I guess mc people don't buy their kids quad bikes or Wii's then. Course not! Silly old me to even think that!

Course I would think that way, I'm disadvantaged. Says who by the way Moondog? By what definition?

It's not really a free choice though.
That's the problem.
But it's true that the rich waste their money on shit too.

I personally cheer when a poor person manages to fleece the social or whatever.Its a drop in the ocean compared to the way the rich and powerful rob and exploit others.

Still worries me that people feel under such huge pressure,particulalry to buy crap for their kids.Witness all the threads on here asking what is a suitable gift for a 12 week old and so on.

As a salt I regularly visit houses where I have to literally wade through toys but in which no adult can be bothered to sit and read or play a board game with a child.That is what they really want.

Lewis, you lucky if i spent that on my ds's first christmas, and to be honest there was nothing I could buy him at his age that he was the slightest bit interested in apart from toy cars and trucks!!
The relatives that bought anything else completly wasted their cash, I tried to tell them, but you know how some relatives just 'have' to buy something trendy regardless of whether the child will actually like it
In my opinion, the best presents are the ones that some thought are put into, regardless whether its 99p or £99.

Well Moondog - I have to say that is rather a sweeping generalisation!

Yes, the poor maybe disadvantaged in some way or other (ergo they are poor). That doesn't mean they are stupid and feckless though.

And as for the keeping up with the Jones, with one legged Barbies or whatever, then that is surely the preserve of the aspirational middle classes.

Surely the fight to get the latest Fendi clutch bag or Jimmy Choos is the middle class equivalent!

Which is the less tasteful, wanting to see a smile on your child's face on Christmas morning or flashing your wealth around with overpriced designer tat!

Were you Starlight?
Or do you just think you were?
In my experience,the coolest kids are those that plough their own furrow and other kids know this too, regardless of possesssions.

Ah - you are let off the hook - crossed posted with you conceding that rich people waste money on crap too!

Oh yes,bags that cost thousands and face creams for £40-50.Who buys this stuff??? Reading the papers and magazines,they seem to suggest that quite ordinary people think nothing of it.

What concerns me is how shopping seems to be a viable leisure activity.I see entire families out at it.
Madness!!

Well I don't feel particularly disadvantaged thankyouverymuch and I'm sure Custy would say the same. And yes I do read books to my children and play board games and no they don't have a load of toys overflowing from their one shared bedroom.

At the danger of repeating myself "The majority of us are decent, hard working people. It would do well to remember that."

Moondog, you only see the worst side, but believe me, if you looked a little closer you would see another side, have you ever seen 'Secret Millionaire'? I recommend it to you, the poor giving to the poor, it's heartening stuff, but what most people don't realise is that those people are not exceptions! Those people are all around you, just open your bloody eyes!

Too right, Rhu!

Some people live in council accomodation but actually earn a very good salary. Sometimes people have to live in council accomodation because houses in their area are too expensive to buy nowadays. We live in a three bedroom housing association house. My dh is self employed and i work aswell but our joint salarys are not enough to afford the £400,000 we would probably have to pay for a 3/4 bed house in our area. We need to stay in this area for the kids school and our work. We have sky and can afford it, i spend quite alot on the dc's christmas/birthdays, i do not get into debt anymore. But i would love to own my own house and do not like to be made to feel inferior because i don't own my own house. Not everyone in council accomodation are skint, just can't get on the housing ladder.
By the way my childhood christmas's were great and i do remember some of the presents were from jumble sales etc., but they were lovely presents

Moondog, I know you are well meaning but as a working class person I find your remarks qiute patronising. There are plenty of mc parents who spoil their children, it is not just the ignorant/ disadvantaged.
People can be poor for a variety of reasons; loss of local industry, redundancy, people choosing to live on one wage in order to have a parent at home. There are many bright intelligent people whom you would probably define as poor.
Many MC parents are terifically materialistic- do you think this is acceptable as they can afford more?