I find the men I work with are always supportive

[YawningAngel]

I obviously can't speak for everyone. However, as a woman working in a pretty heavily male environment, my experience has been that since I work hard I'm respected and valued. The only other woman in my team left this week, and all the men are gutted, because she was great. This team was exclusively male before, but once there was a woman about the guys just got ...nicer? The two 'old boys' who would butt heads before just stopped. They get along so much better now. Am I being unreasonable to think that they are behaving better because they want to be chivalrous? And is that even a bad thing? AIBU to think that old fashioned guys are actually more respectful of women than wokebros?

My experience is that men of all ages vary enormously.
I've met misogynistic men across the ages and also worked with some lovely supportive and respectful men.

I read the OP twice, and still can't fathom what she is trying to say.

Maybe I'm a bit tired........

My experience is that men of all ages vary enormously.
I've met misogynistic men across the ages and also worked with some lovely supportive and respectful men.

This ^

Well, my work has mostly been in teams highly dominated (in terms of numbers) by women, but I am horrified at the constant sexism my dgod daughter has had day after day, throughout every day at her place of work. Most of her colleagues are professionally qualified / have been to university / should have met lots of people from different parts of society but any kind of idea of treating men and women the same seems to have bypassed the company completely.

In my opinion people who talk of “chivalry” don’t mind women as long as they conform to old fashioned expectations of what women should be.

Anyway, There’s no need to be “chivalrous” in a workplace. Just be professional human beings, like you should be with anyone, men and women alike.

Many of us thought we were working in 'nice' male dominated environments until we [delete as applicable] were letched on at a party and tried to report it / got pregnant / got less attractive / discovered that the chivalrous blokes have a 'hilarious' private WhatsApp group / started bumping up against the glass ceiling etc etc.

Maybe these men are great. Plenty of supposedly woke men (and women) can be pretty vile. But sometimes there's value in trying to at least pay lip service to inclusiveness, and I've never worked in a heavily male-dominated environment where women were actually treated equally, especially when things were going wrong.

If men truly wanted to value and respect women then they could step up and speak out about violence against women, gender inequality, and everyday sexism, they could campaign against the gender paygap and maternity discrimination (and other sex based discrimiation), they could challenge sexist behaviour displayed by their peers and call out the men who act inappropriately.

But they don't.

Wonder why...?

Your limited personal experience does not qualify you to make any more general statement. You've been lucky, and it's as well to be aware of that before trusting to the good graces of "chivalry" which, as PP has pointed out, often comes with major qualifiers.
What happens when/if you need to challenge them? That'll be the acid test, as I have found to my lack of surprise but disappointment when dealing with a younger colleague ( and my subordinate).

My workplace is about 50:50 with men and women. Most of the men I work with are nice and professional but I wouldn't exactly call it being chivalrous. I'm not really sure how you'd define that in the workplace anyway.

@MyPatronusIsACat

I read the OP twice, and still can't fathom what she is trying to say.

That she hasn't noticed any sexism and that therefore it probably doesn't happen.

SIGH

I don’t really get your question. Are you saying that once a woman joined the team men behaved better?

It sounds similar to when girls are made to sit next to boys in school to ‘stop them being naughty.’

I’m sure these men could have behaved appropriately before a woman joined the team?

My industry is very male dominated, I think the stats were only around 2% of the industry are female.

It's always been mixed, some are awful and hate that women are starting to break into their industry, won't listen to any woman and doesn't believe that woman can do the work because 'womens minds don't work logically'

Others have been fantastic, very supportive, no sexism and a pleasure to be around and have made me feel part of the team.

I get on with men at work but not all men.
Great men don’t have a problem with their ego and aren’t at the mercy of their sex drive.
They are funny, great company and in my experience, far from charming!

Equally, I have worked with some absolute bell-ends: Immature & insecure. Their fragile ego is a massive problem & they think that women are from another planet.

It really all depends on personality.

Cheers @entropynow

I don’t quite understand the point of this post, are we supposed to just accept that all men are amazing and the women who have to deal with sexism and discrimination in the workplace were just not working hard enough?

Is a wokebro someone who basically says all the right things to women but is actually not good to women in this context?

If so OP, I'd say they were equally problematic.

I worked in 3 separate male dominated jobs and my personal experience was really not great over all. I appreciate that is anecdotal though.

@GammyLeg

In my opinion people who talk of “chivalry” don’t mind women as long as they conform to old fashioned expectations of what women should be.

Anyway, There’s no need to be “chivalrous” in a workplace. Just be professional human beings, like you should be with anyone, men and women alike.

Skipping through the religious bits, the code of chivalry seems like a good model: 3. Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them. 8. Thou shalt never lie, and shalt remain faithful to thy pledged word. 9. Thou shalt be generous, and give largesse to everyone. 10. Thou shalt be everywhere and always the champion of the Right and the Good against Injustice and Evil.

@WhoIsPepeSilva

Is a wokebro someone who basically says all the right things to women but is actually not good to women in this context?

If so OP, I'd say they were equally problematic.

I worked in 3 separate male dominated jobs and my personal experience was really not great over all. I appreciate that is anecdotal though.

It's the "I believe in equality for all - two sugars in mine, love..."

There's also the wokebro in that Californian Spa who started mansplaining.

@DdraigGoch thank you. I stick to my last in that case

Those Chivalric points above sound pretty good to me for men and women alike too.

What does chivalry look like in an office context?

I always associate it with opening doors and similar. What sort of things do you mean OP?

In my plenty of years experience.

The ones who are sort of old fashioned around certain types of women are putting on a front. They tend to be the worst when it's just the blokes.

And I suppose it's because they see women, or at least certain women, as almost a different species.

At work I don't want to be seen as different and colleagues change their behaviour when I'm there. I want to be seen as a person they work with. Not different.

As for the men in workplaces it probably depends on sector company culture etc.

If there are some right horrible sexists which there usually are. They say their 'banter' etc. And the men who are fine just go along with it. They never say anything even if they think it's out of line.

To support women in the workplace I would say.

See them as what they are- colleagues who are there to work same as them. Not as aliens who you have to behave differently for.

Speak up when a colleague says or does something they think is crappy. Sexism racism whatever.

Speaking up about the pay gap would be nice but I can't see that happening!

I don't know what a wokebro is. My boss is not an old boy, or chivalrous, but he is definitely a feminist and I'd not have it any other way. He gently encouraged me to go for promotion whilst heavily pregnant and is currently trying to get me promoted whilst I'm on mat leave.

Hmm. Chivalry has no place in a workplace imo. I don’t want men to be nice to me because of some old fashioned notion that I need protected or assisted. I want to be respected as a genuine equal.

Thou shalt respect all weaknesses, and shalt constitute thyself the defender of them

Bring a woman isn't a weakness.

Being