Advice on dealing with difficult children

[Wonderingone3]

Please could I ask advice?
I have 3 children. The eldest are lazy-my fault. I have done everything to date. The youngest is 4 and has daily tantrums. I feel out of control and desperate to establish some order. I have been unwell recently and really need their behaviour to improve. My older 2 are late teens and I feel they are critical and entitled. They complain about everything I do but do nothing themselves. The youngest seems to hate me and is regularly destructive, breaks toys, throws food, kicks and smacks me. Dad's contact is on and off, I can't rely on it. Financial worries too, but just about get by.
If anyone has been in this position and found a way for things to improve, or has an outside perspective, I'd be grateful.
Thanks very much.

No one sounds happy.
Not you.
Not your children.

Do it for you AND your sons

Well my older one would probably agree. But at what point is it his responsibility to arrange to meet friends? They've had the support. I can't carry them indefinitely. How do you actually get them to take any responsibility for their lives? They're nearly adults.

They're delightful in school because school doesn't let them get away with this shit.

For starters they eat at the table. All of them. 4 year old included. Being feral is not an excuse. If the eldest is so lonely then he/she can come and interact with their family.

No pocket money that doesn't get earned. Assign a value to each household chore and they get only what they earn. WiFi access is also dependent on a chore such as keeping their room clean. They're almost adults, the real world will hit them like a ton of bricks at this rate.

Don't nag about homework. It's not your problem.

They are more than old enough to organise themselves to study and to ask for help if they need it. If it doesn't get done. It doesn't get done and if they fail, they fail. In a very short year or 2 they will be working and balancing a budget. They can manage doing their homework.

4 year old needs a firmer hand. Any violence gets them sent away. Go to your room. No one wants to play with someone who hits them and he clearly understands this because he behaves in school.

Discipline him and don't give an inch. Again, he is in school so understands sanctions, he just doesn't believe you'll do it. You have to be the one they don't dare cross and you hold the power to make their lives very very inconvenient if they don't pull their weight.

Thank you for that clear message. I will do just that. I have not been the person they fear no. Rather way too soft and passive. In some ways to compensate for their father's uselessness.

With respect OP, how can you expect your children to take responsibility for their lives if you won't take responsibility for yours? They are under your roof and they need to be shown boundaries from you. There is no magic fairy or supernanny who will do this. We have to step up. If they are rude, tell them they are being rude. If you want help with something, ask for it. If you want them off their phones, take the phones away. Have you had any support for your mental health? You seem to have an unrealistic expectation of what goes on in everyone else's houses. It's no walk in the park being a parent, we are all walking a fine line and trying to establish our own boundaries day to day. But it doesn't need to be as sad and miserable as you are describing. You sound a bit like you have given up on your own kids. They are just children, they respond to the environment they grow up in. Just like we did.

I’d recommend Lemon and Lime Adventures-Calm the Chaos, you’ll find them on Facebook they are doing a free workshop soon.

Thank you for your honesty. I know.

You can't take on their fathers uselessness op. It's his issue and doing. Not yours. But you do need to bring some order to your house.

Today is the day you draw the line in the sand. Start it by you all sitting down at the table together. No one should be eating in their room or in front of the tv unless it's an odd occasion. Meal times are for the family. And if you're not all eating then that's fine but you still sit together and have a drink and a chat. Without that, what's the lesson? That spending time and talking to family is unimportant. That spending time with you is unimportant. That being a family is unimportant.

You all need to reset this and reinstate the discipline and routine that school show. X

Ok, so their Dad is useless and crap, but they have you and you can be ace. Be the one parent who loves them and guides them well through life. We can all get entrenched in crap behaviour but we can also change. Forgive yourself for letting things get so grey and miserable and start waking yourself and everyone up. Have meals together, talk more, play games, laugh, remember why you love them. Show them you love them. They sound like they are retreating from you.

Yes that's true thank you.
Thanks for the calm the chaos too.

Do they all have the same dad? Only asking as that may go some way to explain the older ones indifference. Although, TBH, I would have wanted to be playing with a 4 year old when I was 15/16/17.

See, my parents used to say stuff like this about me (I couldn’t do anything for myself, didn’t know how to work the washer etc). However, mum was always VERY impatient and if I tried it was either a shout of ridicule “Those shirts don’t go on THAT setting! Have you no common sense?!” Or “It’s quicker if I just bloody do it.” Same with cooking, I will add, our cooker ignition hadn’t worked for years, so had to be lit with a match. But if I said I wanted to try making xxxx it was “You’ll waste food and money we can’t afford”.

As a result, I could do the sum total of fuck all as an adult, because I’d never been shown/allowed to.

And just to say, I have really struggled in similar areas to you, and I can completely understand where you are coming from. There are still parts of my children's lives where I don't have the greatest boundaries and it is a constant work in progress but I have had to come to the painful truth that this is now on me. There is no one else to blame. We are the only Mums our kids have. Our own shit boundaries are founded in our childhood and in order to break that cycle we need to wake up and demonstrate clearer ones to our kids. Why don't you go away with your friend and maybe you will see a different side to your kids away on holiday? The fact that they can do it at school shows they are capable.

They don’t have to fear you, OP, just to know that you have high expectations of them that you know they can meet (i.e. you believe in them and want them to be the best they can be and you also believe in your own worth). I think that, after an initial kick-back, you might find that they are happier if you show you care about them by insisting on eating dinner together - at least your older teens and you (the youngest could be separate to start with, he presumably needs to eat earlier…? And he would be ‘allowed’ to join the family at the table when he can sit nicely - makes it an incentive for him to behave well and gives the older ones your more grown-up attention?)

Teenagers need space and freedom, but they also need to feel responsible and ‘grown-up’. Give them real responsibilities (many of which will be boring and they won’t want to do!) but consider whether there are any ways in which you can give them more sense of autonomy and maturity alongside that. It could be things like more choice/responsibility for family meals, holidays/day trips, etc. … depends on your family set up. They are under pressure at school but, equally, the school will be expecting them to be responsible for much of their own belongings and schedules - you can expect the same with, e.g. uniform being clean, homework being done. It’s not your responsibility at their age.

@ChrissyPlummer

Do they all have the same dad? Only asking as that may go some way to explain the older ones indifference. Although, TBH, I would have wanted to be playing with a 4 year old when I was 15/16/17.

See, my parents used to say stuff like this about me (I couldn’t do anything for myself, didn’t know how to work the washer etc). However, mum was always VERY impatient and if I tried it was either a shout of ridicule “Those shirts don’t go on THAT setting! Have you no common sense?!” Or “It’s quicker if I just bloody do it.” Same with cooking, I will add, our cooker ignition hadn’t worked for years, so had to be lit with a match. But if I said I wanted to try making xxxx it was “You’ll waste food and money we can’t afford”.

As a result, I could do the sum total of fuck all as an adult, because I’d never been shown/allowed to.

Ugh. My parents were similar.

Just to say thank you all I am currently working so will reply later.

I have yet to meet a parent who couldn’t benefit from this book.

Even now I will flick back through the cartoons and realise I could have de escalated better or listened better

www.tbcs.org/uploaded/Resources/Presentations/Tools_for_Success_16/How_to_Talk_So_Kids_Will_Listen.pdf

My mother was very passive. I was like my older children, belligerent and rude and lazy.
I still look back and think why did you not step up and take control. So I have clearly followed her pattern.
It's energy which is my barrier. Lack of energy to be consistent and strict. And to organize and to manage.
I'm going to do a parenting course, the solihull one. And try my best to be firm and just not fear saying 'no'. That will start from dinner tonight where they all sit at the table. Even if it's a disaster I'll keep going. Then bath and own bed for my youngest.
Family walk over the weekend to try and get some connection. I suppose if they moan they moan.
I have recognised it needs to change. I really have wished someone could just help or take over but yes as someone said upthread it's a harsh realisation that nobody will. There's just me.
It's shit though, when there's a dad there who is utter rubbish at parenting and doesn't care.
Same dad to all. Should have realised years ago it would never improve but when all you've known is an uninterested father, then you think that this is how it is.

I know it sounds harsh but if you don't crack down no one else will. They need life skills, you won't always be here. They know well and good that you love them enough for both of you and you deserve their respect ffs.

You are honest op and have real insight
And that is a real strength so good on you

But

What you are suggesting for tonight and this weekend is utterly unrealistic and you have to get real.

The situation you are in is the result of many many years of the boys being allowed to treat you like shit and no family structure

You can’t expect to suddenly change that. Especially with late teens

Baby steps.
Start with dinner time with the youngest and speak to your older sons and say how much you’d love them to join. If they do, great. If they don’t, at least they’ve been invited.
Do bath time with youngest. And sit in the bathroom with him and talk to him. Then a story. And then own bed. If he kicks up a fuss. Say ok - tonight mine. But tomorrow you will do a treat meal - you and him, and another bath time with you there but confirm is… he tries his own bed.

Invite the older ones again. Tempt them with a take away of their favourite meal perhaps.

Baby steps op.

And the walk… take the youngest definitely and invite the older ones. They will say no. But perhaps say you will drop them off at friends afterwards?

Dinner with your youngest every. Single. Night.

Without fail

And ALWAYS invite your older ones

For it eating in bedrooms

Forbid eating in bedrooms

That is absolutely forbidden in this household.

Fopr your 4 yr old; let him learn that what he does has consequences.

If he throws his food on the floor, it goes straight in the bin, no comment. no replacement. no alternative offered. The next mealtime is on the usual schedule. No snacks in between.

If he breaks his toys they won't be mended or replaced. He won't have much fun with broken toys.

If he hits you he will go to his bedroom to cool down.
Hitting you will NEVER result in him getting what he wanted.

As for your older kids; give them domestic tasks. They do their own laundry; or have no clean clothes to wear. They make lunch, or there is no lunch. Pocket money/allowances/parental taxi service are dependent on previous completion of allocated domestic tasks.

Thank you.
Yes banning food in bedrooms is a good idea.
And being very clear with the 4 year old is also a good idea.
Thank you I am definitely taking on board your comments.

The four year old at school?

Another thing - if they wants money, they wants to get a job. Particularly if they're not helping at all around the home. You don't get money for nothing.