To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

[Blankspace4]

Yup. I started the other recent WFH thread as I’m entirely fed up and demoralised with it, verging on depression.

Sitting on my bed 15 mins before my first Teams meeting which I’ve already decided I will be doing with camera off as I can’t be bothered to put any make up on

[TimeForTeaAndG]

I'm still on the side of WFH.

Not being able to switch off isn't a WFH issue, it's a boundaries issue. I log out at 5pm and I don't touch work again til 9am, whether I'm in the office or at home. Set better boundaries.

I don't really care if the massively unsustainable capitalist vision can't be maintained, it needs to change and I agree with PP who say their neighbourhoods/small towns have massively benefited from more people being around in the day time.

I used to have to get up at 6:30am and would arrive home at around 18:45. DD in breakfast club and after school care. Now...we get up at 7:45, no wraparound care (she's old enough to amuse herself once she is home from school) and when I'm done at 5pm I don't have another hour and 45 mins til I get home.

I am aware of the many problems that WFH also has, I'm not denying them, there is never a one size fits all solution but shoving everyone back into the office model and presenteeism etc also doesn't work. Many of us have spent years trying to get WFH models to be told it was impossible, funnily enough now we've proven consistently that it very much is possible we don't want to go back.

[Thesandmanishere]

Wfh suits those who have room to do it in their houses

For most of my time WFH we lived in a 500sq ft flat with no garden. DH worked in our bedroom and I worked in our DS's room or in the living room when the pandemic hit.

Still would have taken it over going to the office.

[SmokeyDevil]

There's not many people who actually sit work productive every minute between. 9 and 12.30. People make drinks, have a chat, wander and chat to other people etc.

Yeah you're right. People say those at home aren't disciplined, I rarely see anyone in an office sit there from 9-12:30 without getting up once. They go for toilet breaks, coffee breaks, smoking breaks, chatting with colleagues, looking at crap online etc. I've known people in previous jobs who got up every hour for at least 10 mins, so by the end of the week they have worked around 6 hours less. That's almost a full day wasted. All those quick 'pop to the kitchen' breaks add up.

[Nhytfdetykbcz]

WFH is not for everyone. I absolutely love working from home, but I am lucky enough to have a small office with its own WiFi. I have a week in the office once a month now. Perhaps this flexible approach would suit you and others.
Some colleagues hate it, especially those who live on their own.

[Busybee5000]

Our workplace policy is now hybrid (except for a small number of job roles) 50 per cent of time WFH and in the office. Just started it and ok but will need to get used to yet more new routines and ways of working - it will taketime.

[HarrietsChariot]

Why not just allow people to work where they feel they are most productive and happiest? Forcing people to return to the office is just as bad as not allowing them to. WFH works for many people and helps the environment. What I lose in face to face interaction I more than make up in efficiency because of fewer interruptions and wellbeing because of reduced stress.

Also, it's not my job to keep sandwich shops and coffee bars going. WFH means people spend less on these things, but the money gets spent somewhere else instead. My local coffee shop might shut due to lack of business, but another business in a different sector gets my money instead.

The problem with saying WFH is bad is that it's a very reactionary view. It basically says that the situation pre-pandemic was normal and must be maintained at all costs. That's not true, society evolves and businesses need to adapt to fit. Businesses have always gone under because they were not used enough. People just spend their money elsewhere.

The DVLA was always shit, by the way. Any business or agency that is a monopoly can afford to be shit because people cannot go elsewhere.

[galacticpixels]

I like working from home and am glad we're not going back to the office until at least 2022. And working from home for me has meant working from my small apartment with DP also working there. Still way better than going into the office in my opinion. It's an open plan office and I hate it. So hard to work with all the distractions.

And I do think it's as, if not more, productive. My company has had one of its best years with all of us fully remote, so I don't just think it's productive, it is productive. Teams have produced the same level or more work and the business is thriving.

[HarrietsChariot]

@SmokeyDevil

There's not many people who actually sit work productive every minute between. 9 and 12.30. People make drinks, have a chat, wander and chat to other people etc.

Yeah you're right. People say those at home aren't disciplined, I rarely see anyone in an office sit there from 9-12:30 without getting up once. They go for toilet breaks, coffee breaks, smoking breaks, chatting with colleagues, looking at crap online etc. I've known people in previous jobs who got up every hour for at least 10 mins, so by the end of the week they have worked around 6 hours less. That's almost a full day wasted. All those quick 'pop to the kitchen' breaks add up.

You're meant to get up every hour. Sitting still for hours on end is bad for the eyes and for the body. You should take at least five minutes away from sitting at a desk every hour.

[EllaM777]

I believe that people should have choice and that Hybrid working gives people more flexibility. Some may need more interaction with people to avoid feeling isolated, others (like my husband) never want to return to driving 2-3hours every day and have a family that benefit by them having that extra 2-3hours at home joining in with family life. My husband for one is massively less stressed without the commute, gets more work done at home and is no longer missing out massively on family life. I think that as long individual employees are productive enough at home that having a choice is the key to work/life balance.

[TimeForTeaAndG]

Oh and you could never get in touch with the DVLA anyway. I renewed my licence online though and it arrived a couple of weeks later.

I did try and call them about something though, message said to try the email, the email told me to try webchat, webchat said call during office hours....

[minatrina]

@burritofan

Or: for some people it works best to do full time in the office, for some people it works best to do full time at home, and for some people it works best to do a hybrid. Imagine!

Coffee bars and sandwich shops etc moving to a neighbourhood model would be good instead of clustering everything in the central business district. Not leaving the house and gaining weight is a person problem, or one borne out of poor working culture that keeps people tied to their desks and replaces commute time with work. Which isn’t going to be solved by a forced return to the office.

Just let everyone work differently and flexibly, it’s not that hard.

Exactly this

I don't understand why people who want to work in an office are desperate to make the rest of us suffer too

If Pret goes under, then that's the free market doing it's thing, surely? Should we really refuse to use technological advancements to make our lives easier in order to artificially keep convenience food chains afloat?

[Gothichouse40]

We are already having our bus services cut, they are also talking about cutting train services, be careful what you wish for. If I lived rurally, Id be rather concerned, as it is where I am we already had bus services cut. It's vital to me as I don't drive and I think many people are under the mistaken impression that you are able to drive forever. Old age has a funny way of creeping up on you, as do ailments. Take nothing for granted. If Ive learned anything during the Pandemic, Ive learned this.

[Polkadotties]

@olidora63

I think WFH is a disaster for young people.Sleeping and working in the same room , not exercising and being in the physical company of others, is not good for MH !

I don’t understand the not exercising argument. The lack of commute means more time to exercise. The walk from the station to your office is replaced by a walk from your house.

[minatrina]

Another point is that if I'm not spending my money on commuting then I will spend it on other things, which is helping other parts of the economy.

Also cutting out commuting is better for the environment!

[minatrina]

@Gothichouse40

We are already having our bus services cut, they are also talking about cutting train services, be careful what you wish for. If I lived rurally, Id be rather concerned, as it is where I am we already had bus services cut. It's vital to me as I don't drive and I think many people are under the mistaken impression that you are able to drive forever. Old age has a funny way of creeping up on you, as do ailments. Take nothing for granted. If Ive learned anything during the Pandemic, Ive learned this.

I live very rurally and they've been cutting our bus services despite them being well-used for decades - I really don't think that going back to the office is going to stop that sadly

[ChrissyPlummer]

I can’t WFH in my role, but if I went back to office/based work, I’d absolutely love it!

One of my colleagues has been waiting for over 7 weeks for a straight passport renewal. The DVLA told my mums cousin that her over-70 renewal would be up to 20 weeks if she applied on paper.

[RumHoney]

I felt like I was quite happy WFH and was quite enjoying not commuting for a while. I was a bit anxious the first few times I went into the office (not compulsory, more for a catch up with my team and leaving dos).

Then I got a new job. I'm officially office based although my predecessor and the rest of my team are 100% remote so we agreed there was some flexibility to see what working pattern works best as long as I'm able to get to the office when needed.

Since I started I've felt so much better and more engaged with work. It's partly the new job effect but I can tell the difference between my office days and my WFH days and I've been going in more than I officially need to.

It won't help public transport or coffee shops though as the new office is in a quiet village so I drive/cycle and take my lunch in. Lunch out is a WFH treat!

[rookiemere]

Regarding Pret and the like, it's pretty obvious to me - and I'm not an entrepreneur with a vested interest in this - that they needed to change their business model. If a pret van turned up at lunchtime at our suburban part of town, they'd do an absolutely roaring trade, in the same way that the fish van man is coining it in these days.

Sure it would require set up costs etc. but they could move out of costly city centre premises to offset that.

Really surprised during the pandemic that not more businesses have set up a mobile offering. Maybe I should jack in my job which I now hate because wfh and set one up.

[EveningOverRooftops]

If anything WFH and the pandemic as a whole have shown our city centre based shops and supermarket culture is anything but good.

If we’d had the small high street shops - for reference my local one is mostly takeaways, a pound shop type place, several charity shops and a post office - and less focus on big supermarkets the last 18mths would’ve been an entirely different experience for all of us.

It’s about time we started rethinking our retail setup, our supermarket set up to something that is much more sustainable overall.

[Dozer]

Specific organisations don’t necessarily know it’s ‘worked well’ unless they’ve evaluated this, and tried to assess WFH impacts vs other factors, eg brexit, other covid impacts such as supply issues.

For the organisation I work for my guess is that overall, the organisation’s performance has dropped with most people WFH.

[TempsPerdu]

As others have said, older workers are sitting comfortably at home, the ladder firmly pulled up

Lots of truth in this I think. It’s not just about young people being able to use the tech; it’s all the soft skills, relationship building and other intangible stuff they’re missing out on by not being around older, more experienced colleagues. Plus the huge disparity between old and young in terms of the average home set-up (purpose built home office vs bed sit with dodgy WiFi).

I think a hybrid model can work just fine, but there are lots of downsides to permanent WFH that need to be acknowledged. We’re in a nice but typically small London house, with a preschooler who’s only at nursery part of the week, and DP has WFH throughout the pandemic. He’s been stuck in a 5x5ft box room for 8.5 hours a day, and my stress levels have increased massively trying to occupy DD at home without her making excessive noise and interrupting him (we go out lots, but not feasibly all day). Because his work consists largely of conference calls he spends much of the day broadcasting random IT stuff to DD and me in a booming voice while wearing headphones. We’re all suffering from lack of personal space. DP has put on a substantial amount of weight due to lack of incidental exercise, which he’s now dealing with through an expensive gym membership. Our newish house is overly well insulated, and therefore DP’s box room has been boiling hot (35 degrees plus) throughout most of the summer.

We’re more privileged than the vast majority of others - I’m at home and DP is in the top 10% of earners - but I think those who are most evangelical about full-time WFH are forgetting that spacious houses with large gardens, noise insulation and fast, efficient technology are not the U.K. norm. It’s certainly not ours, nor those of most of our friendship circle who are also WFH.

Thankfully as of a couple of weeks ago DP back in the office two days a week, which is saving everyone’s sanity somewhat. As with so much else, I think it’s about balance.

[PersonaNonGarter]

YABU - the office is a recent invention by the standards of civilisation and not mandated by God.

WFH is essential to reducing carbon footprint. We NEED people to stop travelling so much and the commute is the best way to cut that out. If they love coffee and sandwiches they can buy them locally. If they don’t, the sandwich shops will need to adapt.

[minatrina]

Oh also I'm 24 so fairly young, I definitely personally don't find WFH a problem when it comes to socialising with colleagues. I grew up with the internet! Bonding and chatting with people using emails and instant message is honestly no problem for me 🤣

[Idontwantyourfreedom]

@HeartsAndClubs

I think there has to be a balance. Not a popular view, but in general people are a lot less productive than they think they are, because very few people work exclusively from home. I.e. you go into your home office at 9 and don’t come out until 12:30, and then go back in at 1:30 and don’t come out until 5. So many people just “nip out to put the washing on/hang the washing out/do the school run/answer the door” and the list goes on, whereas these are things you shouldn’t be doing in the working day. You’re at work, not at home, and most people find it impossible to be that disciplined.

And how many companies have we heard that “we may be delayed in calling back due to the pandemic” because in truth call centre staff aren’t working as efficiently from home and as a result customer service has plummeted.

And then there’s training, learning a job, joining an organisation where you will never get to meet your colleagues face to face because you work from home. I know people who have started new jobs during the pandemic and they have felt completely on the sidelines because colleagues who did previously work together know each other and they’re an incomer who has never met any of them.

There are definitely pro’s to working from home, but I think it’s unrealistic to expect full-time working from home to remain, unless you’re working in a role where you’re not responsible to or for anyone else.

When I was in the office, people were always popping off for a coffee break, a fag break or just to stretch their legs. Of course nobody sat there for 3 or 4 hours straight, everyone needs a few minutes out. I know I have been more productive and less distracted since not being there, but accept some people prefer it and need to be there.