To have completely changed my mind about WFH?

[MauvePinkRose]

I know there is a WFH thread but I mean this more generally than the specific things about it that are driving me to drink!

Pre pandemic, I would have said that WFH was a positive thing that employers should absolutely allow, reducing traffic and therefore pollution, allowing more quality time at home.

Now, I’ve changed my mind.

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars.

Then, I’m not convinced that WFH is as productive as people think. I don’t know what’s going on with DVLA for instance but I am still waiting for a driving license I sent off for three months ago and you can’t get through on the phones.

It’s turned family homes into workplaces and thus impacts everyone. I’ve had some really stressful and unpleasant times because of it.

And I do think it’s not very healthy. Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity.

I’ll probably be flamed by all the WFHers now

[Serendipity79]

For those of us who are successful at wfh its a no brainer. I have been permanently at home on flexi time, I am still very productive if not more so and my kids love that i can collect them on time from school 3 days a week. The money i gain from not paying for after school clubs is going to be funding weekend day trips. I am looking to move house next year and will have a much wider range of property i can look at because i dont need to now be near a train station linking me with London.

For many years I was forced into a commute which took me away from my family, into an office with a culture that I really didnt like, and ridiculed because I couldnt go for drinks after work because single parents dont have that luxury a lot of the time.

Now I work my own hours to suit, I have a separate space to work in and I am aware that this is a luxury but its based on good performance. My kids are thrilled to bits. It sounds like you've had experience of organisations who simply arent used to wfh, a lot of them arent set up with the right technology, and there will be people who take the mickey about their hours. Thats a company problem, not a general wfh problem though.

[C8H10N4O2]

I think it’s having a negative impact on public transport, which in turn will lead to redundancies and reduced public transport, which is bad news for those who can’t drive. It is also having a knock on effect on things like coffee kiosks and sandwich bars


You are having a laugh. Public transport is still massively overcrowded in my region, even with most offices having only very small numbers of staff returning to the commute. My local high street has had a boom as people go there instead of just passing it by on the way to the station - what about their jobs?

YABU to make sweeping assumptions without evidence and basing policy on personal anecdotes. Why on earth do you assume that WFH is the reason DVLA are slow? They have always been slow - most of the services are outsourced to the cheapest possibly provider. You get what you pay for.

Dp rarely leaves the house without me, has gained weight and falls ill all the time as I just feel he isn’t gaining any natural immunity

So because DH sits on his arse unless forced into an office everyone should be forced into an office? Why not address his problems as his problems rather than loading the responsibility onto others?

There is no one size fits all model, most of our clients are looking at flexible mixed models but they need to be based on facts not wild assumptions.

[Thesandmanishere]

So many people just “nip out to put the washing on/hang the washing out/do the school run/answer the door” and the list goes on, whereas these are things you shouldn’t be doing in the working day.

No sorry but this is bollocks. This is one of the main perks of WFH for me. The fact I can pop on a load of washing etc. My boss couldn't give a shiny shit about any of that as long as I get the work done. When I managed a team it was the same - I recall one new starter asking if it was OK if she started at 10 instead of 9 so she could go to her daughter's school assembly. I told her she didn't need to ask - we were a flexible employer, she was an adult and managing her workload was up to her.

I mean if you're physically in an office do you never take breaks

Such tediously outdated attitudes to home working.

[Thesandmanishere]

Hanging up the washing takes about the same time as a chat, but is much less enjoyable.

Speak for yourself; avoiding tedious small talk with colleagues is a major benefit of WFH for me.

[WiseUpJanetWeiss]

@MauvePinkRose

Can I just say guys - I’m not talking to you personally

If you walk to work and wouldn’t dream of something so decadent as buying a sandwich or coffee fair enough, but can you not see a lot of people did?

Well, you’ve asked this on AIBU with a poll, so people are going to have opinions…

WFH works for some and not for others. I’d have thought that would be obvious. For DH and me it works well.

In personal terms we have spent much less on petrol, get the time we would have spent on commuting to go for walks — we “walk to work” every morning. We’re very fortunate to have an office/spare bedroom each and decent chairs (our own) and additional screens (brought home from work). In the early days of the pandemic and when anything new happens we do get a blurred work/life balance, but “leaving” late when at home is much better than leaving late from the office. We also no longer travel around the country for meetings, which is great.

In work terms we’re much more efficient. There’s no travel time, so we can attend several calls with people all over the country in one day. Doing this from the office is less straightforward as we’re working in a shared space so there would be noisy distractions. The department has saved £££ as no-one is getting trains to London or staying in hotels. It’s also forced a very different, more agile, way of working on projects which will continue whatever happens, but would never have evolved if we hadn’t been WFH.

The down side is missing some colleagues who have been working on other projects. I always took a packed lunch to work anyway, so no city centre businesses are missing me.

[ivykaty44]

During the pandemic I could get to work easily and quickly. There were very few drivers on the road and I felt safe to take a more direct route

Now the traffic has increased I’ve reverted to an off road route for part of the journey and it takes me an hour instead of 35 minutes

So I’ve started driving again this week instead of cycling - it’s truly aweful

Why can’t people work from home and go out for lunch near there home? Why can they use communal office set up near there home and walk or cycle there

[BathMatToe]

@PosiePerkinPootleFlump

It's shit for young people who have no middle management to learn from properly because they are all sitting at home.
And really selfish on the part of people who learned loads from interacting with colleagues when they were more junior, but now can't be arsed to go in to help develop more junior staff.

Great point

[Stuffin]

The key to WAH is that it needs to be a balance and also a choice. I used to do both pre covid and it worked well for me and the company. Now that choice has been taken away I am not enjoying full time WAH.

Until the government stop talking about possible guidance to WAH over winter I can't see that changing for some of the bigger companies.

[Calmdown14]

You could just as easily look at this from the other way. People are saving on lunges, coffee, petrol or commuting costs but I bet not that many are squirrelling every penny away.
They are buying things in their own local area instead. So I now but my child to two after school activities in the village hall. They didn't run before because most working parents commute and it wasn't viable. Now it is.
A local pub that was up for sale and on the verge of closing has become a really lovely bistro because there is more day time and early evening trade. We have a brilliant farm shop which established when people needed mill and didn't want to go to supermarket miles away.
Like any other change, there are winners and losers.
Personally, I think working from home requires a complete change of mindset and having achieved that, I am more wary of hybrid where people treat the day at home as a day off

[Chloemol]

Like anything it reduces business in one area, but increases in others

Ok less money to public transport if you use that, but more money to get spent elsewhere. Coffee shops and kiosks may loose out, other food shops gain as you need to provide your own lunch, and tbh lots will now realise how much they waste on the coffees etc and take their own

Many are saving and then spending money on doing up the house they couldn’t afford to do, I know I am

As to weight, that’s down to discipline, you can still exercise

Many employers like it a# it’s cheaper for them, expletive are still productive and for employees work/life balance is better

It’s here to stay, will work for some and not others

[Ibelieveinghosts]

I love WFH. My mental health has really improved no longer being surrounded by energy sapping colleagues kissing ass. Lunch time initiative sessions designed to progress one persons career at the expense of 100s of other people’s lunch break have disappeared. I don’t have to listen to shit about Love Island etc.

We have hybrid working atm and I get hardily anything done in the office compared with home.

The benefits far outweigh the negatives esp on the environmental side of things. But I realise everyone is different. But I would never take a job now that required full time office attendance

[midgemagneto]

Different strokes for different folks

I can nip out with the washing , get fresh air and ideas . Walking helps me think and I need to do that

In the office I would be pacing the floor to get that focus , and annoying others no doubt

And getting interrupted by people for pointless chats about Tesco's

Moved house recently, DVKA updated 3 licenses within the week

We had overcrowded trains , and very poor air quality to support commuting .

Jobs change all the time , mining, fishing , we need to be better at supporting people through change not trying to avoid it

[Badbadbunny]

@NailsNeedDoing

The thing that worries me about so many working from home is the impact it will have on younger employees just starting out. I’m sure all the people in their comfy jobs wfh had the benefit of older more experienced employees to gain knowledge from when they first started, but now it’s their turn to give that back they want to stay home to make their own lives more convenient. It seems very selfish to me.

Yep, fully agree. In many jobs/professions, most of the "real" learning is done by being around older/experienced staff. You simply can't replicate that remotely.

I learned my profession "on the job", and in the subsequent decades have recruited and helped train dozens of school/Uni leavers. Formal learning simply doesn't cut it in lots of ways. I've seen lots of "green" immature youngsters really mature within weeks of starting work. Simply being around older/experienced staff makes a massive difference to them, in terms of their behaviour, human interactions, etc. It goes far beyond learning to "do the job".

I really worry about the next generation if WFH becomes the norm. Many have already suffered being trapped in tiny Uni flats 24/7 for a year. Firms will reduce the number of trainees they take on if there is no-one in the office to train them up. The trainees themselves will suffer if there are fewer staff in the workplace to help/train them.

All this could cause higher young unemployment and yet another skills shortage in a few years' time.

[Chloemol]

Where did the word expletive come from! I meant employees

[DottyHarmer]

I agree about young people.

Ds has started a job wfh. He does not know any of his colleagues. He can only ask a question by email and then the reply is email. This, incidentally, is a job that would have been in person the year before last. So he is sat in his bedroom all day.

His friends have similar experiences. The one doing chartered accountancy training is stuck in his room auditing downloaded files. Back in the day the upside of a rather dull training was having a bunch of new recruit colleagues and going out to audit random companies together. Now any laughs have been firmly eliminated by making it all remote. Incidentally it seems obvious now that this job could be done by anyone anywhere in the world now, now the need to be on the spot has been broken.

As others have said, older workers are sitting comfortably at home, the ladder firmly pulled up.

[MauvePinkRose]

I’m well aware it’s a DP problem @C8H10N4O2

Just like the victims of domestic violence during the pandemic had DP problems. It didn’t make lockdown any less damaging.

Have you not read about the number of women on here stuck in bedrooms or tramping the streets with little children because of a husband or partner booming out on Teams meetings?

I haven’t even been able to get any treatment for depression because of it. It’s a pain in the bloody arse! And everyone working from home insists that THEY aren’t like that and I think … I bet DP thinks that too!

[HardStaringBearFromDarkestPeru]

Re: DVLA.
Certain departments - in particular the Medical assessments - have been on strike.
I'm trying to get my 3 year medical licence renewed which can't be done online. It took a month for them to confirm they'd received the paperwork & it was on their system. My consultants are still waiting to hear from them. There's another month to go before my licence expires but I'll hopefully be able to drive under Section 88 if my insurer agrees.
It's a f**king shitshow & no excuse!

[LastGirlSanding]

On the housework when WFH - you can do lots of little jobs throughout the day and that saves you doing them when you get gone from the office. So you cut commute time and housework time and 10 mins here and there to catch up on housework makes my day more productive because I know i’m buying more down time later to spend with kids or partner or hobbies etc. I’m also not tired or stressed from commuting so I can use that energy too to be more productive. It’s a win win.

Saying that I also like being around colleagues on person so hybrid working is perfect for me personally.

[HarrietOh]

I disagree. I don’t have a job involving customers, and WFH means I am better able to concentrate and work without distractions that you get in busy offices. I am a manager and productivity in my team has not decreased.
Not having to commute has made me more fit and healthy, more time to head to gym and cook/prepare meals.
I still support local businesses as I walk to local deli’s etc for lunch or breakfast, businesses I never even went in pre-WFH.
I think it’s different for everyone.

[DoubleShotEspresso]

@niceupthedanceagain

I think it's great that excessive consumerism and consumption is being challenged. Public transport is so overpriced perhaps it will force a funding rethink. I think a rethink of all the ways society functions is due (but probably won't happen because people want to get back to normal hamster wheel life).

I feel this too. Strongly.
Remember at the beginning of Covid when we were all looking up to the empty skies marvelling at how we had all mindlessly damaged the planet and how our mass consumption was so unnecessary and damaging?
I'd really have hoped that we all might have paused for thought a little more considerably, really thought out better alternatives in terms of our daily lifestyle "needs" and assessed better a functional more sensible way forward?
I'm not naive enough to think that grabbing a morning coffee or incessant Amazon deliveries would or should end, but hoped we would at least have developed more mindful approaches after all this time.

[DottyHarmer]

Re the passport, my passport has been missing in (lack of) action for weeks. It is a straight renewal. Yesterday I got a message telling me not to ring the passport office

[Badbadbunny]

The public transport issue will be a killer. It's all well and good for people to say WFH for a few days and go into the office for the odd day. BUT, if too many people do that, there won't be the regular/convenient public transport for them to do it. Services will be cut, prices will increase.

What was a 45 minute commute may become a 60-90 minute if service frequency is cut or if express services are slowed down by making more stops. Prices will inevitably rise if there are fewer customers to cover the costs. Trains may be shorter, meaning more cramped and/or less facilities. Entire stations/lines may be closed down if there aren't enough passengers every day to make viable.

Yes, I know people make fun at comments about sandwich shops. But, for the workers wanting to "go in" only one day per week, will they be happy when there is nowhere to go out and buy their lunch??

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

When there's a family member WFHing in a communal area of the family home (due to there being nowhere else), it can have a negative effect on the other members of the family.... you are living in their Office really. (On the other hand... that emergency meaning a 9pm finish has no long commute on the end)

Hybrid seems ideal really.

[Miliao]

Covid has caused the delays as people are off sick/isolating etc. I don’t think you can attribute wfh as the delay. Some people want to wfh, others don’t, but it seems on here that those that don’t aren’t happy with just going back to the office, they want to force those that don’t back too. Also young people also like the opportunity to wfh too! We have the opportunity to create a new system, one where we can be productive and still have time for family/friends etc without long commutes and presenteeism. I don’t see why it has to be one or the other.

[MajorCarolDanvers]

There are pros and cons to everything.

Personally I like working from home. I am more productive and I enjoy it.

I didn't use public transport or buy coffee before so no impact on services from me.

Amongst my colleagues we have the choice of wfh, hybrid or return and all have picked either wfh or hybrid.