Am I a bully to my DD?

[DoIBully]

Age 7, Year 3.

She gets tired at school and when she gets tired she has absolutely awful meltdown /tantrums (Not sure which is the right way to describe it) where she refuses to walk, ends up hitting me, kicking me etc.

If these happen at home I can easily walk away to another room, leave her to calm down and then love bomb her until bedtime once she’s calm.

It’s just me and her (and our pet) at home.

Since going back to school she’s been having these meltdowns/tantrums right outside the school gates, more or less as soon as I’ve got her through the gates. Not only is it embarrassing to have my 7 year old hitting me in front of the HT, it’s quite dangerous as I can’t easily and safely carry her plus backpack plus library bag/art folder/lunchbox home and I am worried she’ll hit or hurt one of the smaller children (school starts at age 3). She just goes into a rage and doesn’t know what she’s doing - the HT described her like that when she’s witnessed DD like this, she says it’s not DD and she doesn’t recognise that behaviour from her normally – shes generally pretty chilled out even with me.

Tonight and Friday night we played a new game, the silent game. Apart from blinking, breathing and the sound of our footsteps, no noise from our body was allowed. Whoever managed it got a biscuit at home. Obviously I didn’t actually punish for her talking/walking/laughing. But it did help to focus her and it worked! DD managed to “hold in” the rage until we got home where she could safely let out her emotions and we could then settle down for a nice evening together – we live half a mile from school so this was for about 15-20 minutes if that.

A family member of mine has said that doing this is bullying my DD and they’re surprised the HT hasn’t stepped in to stop me from playing this with DD.

Am I honestly harming her or bullying her? She gets plenty of attention after the meltdown/tantrum has passed, we’ll do her homework together, read her school book, play a board game, as well as eat, and we always have a cuddle in bed before she goes to sleep.

AIBU or is the family member right?

Age 7, Year 3.

She gets tired at school and when she gets tired she has absolutely awful meltdown /tantrums (Not sure which is the right way to describe it) where she refuses to walk, ends up hitting me, kicking me etc.

If these happen at home I can easily walk away to another room, leave her to calm down and then love bomb her until bedtime once she’s calm.

It’s just me and her (and our pet) at home.

Since going back to school she’s been having these meltdowns/tantrums right outside the school gates, more or less as soon as I’ve got her through the gates. Not only is it embarrassing to have my 7 year old hitting me in front of the HT, it’s quite dangerous as I can’t easily and safely carry her plus backpack plus library bag/art folder/lunchbox home and I am worried she’ll hit or hurt one of the smaller children (school starts at age 3). She just goes into a rage and doesn’t know what she’s doing - the HT described her like that when she’s witnessed DD like this, she says it’s not DD and she doesn’t recognise that behaviour from her normally – shes generally pretty chilled out even with me.

Tonight and Friday night we played a new game, the silent game. Apart from blinking, breathing and the sound of our footsteps, no noise from our body was allowed. Whoever managed it got a biscuit at home. Obviously I didn’t actually punish for her talking/walking/laughing. But it did help to focus her and it worked! DD managed to “hold in” the rage until we got home where she could safely let out her emotions and we could then settle down for a nice evening together – we live half a mile from school so this was for about 15-20 minutes if that.

A family member of mine has said that doing this is bullying my DD and they’re surprised the HT hasn’t stepped in to stop me from playing this with DD.

Am I honestly harming her or bullying her? She gets plenty of attention after the meltdown/tantrum has passed, we’ll do her homework together, read her school book, play a board game, as well as eat, and we always have a cuddle in bed before she goes to sleep.

AIBU or is the family member right?

I can't comment on why these things might be happening, but I don't think you're 'bullying' her. She's aware and she's bought into the game - it's not like your silence is confusing her or distressing her. If that was happening your relative might have a point, but it isn't.

Is there anywhere within the school grounds you could sit and have a snack with her before even heading home?

Schools have more understanding of children keeping in their emotions until they get home. I'd speak to the SENCO perhaps if you can. As others have said more knowledge about ASD in girls is out there now and their ability to mask.

Definitely not bullying as others have said and sound a great game.

It may be harder this year as not only is she getting to used to Yr 3 which is a bit of a jump but "normal school" which she will not necessarily even remember. We are returning to everyone out at the same time on the playground which makes playtime more chaotic. Assemblies are now happening which again, she may not remember from before. There is more movement around school. Children can work in groups again, share equipment so lessons are different.

The last full year of "normal school" your daughter had was reception. That is a huge jump to Year 3.

After school restraint collapse. Look it up. Often the result of too much sensory input and demands in the day.
You're not bullying but it's not advised to curb meltdowns either.
I'd talk to school and consider some sensory strategies in class like ear defenders. Working on what causes her to be built up like that by school will help her in the long run. Try some feelings work too like the zones of regulation and name her feelings in the moment for her that you can see.

Sounds a great idea.

It’s certainly NOT bullying and you family never is clearly the only bully in this situation. Making someone feel shit, just because….. that’s the definition of a bully to a tee!

family member

Year 3 is really hard. They’re no longer infants and more is expected with less play.

This could.be what she’s struggling with.

I would however, expect a bit more support from the HT

My daughter is similar age and has done similar things.

For us it’s anxiety. The anxiety of a new building (moved to juniors) new routines, new teachers etc.

The aggression stopped when I focused on what was triggering the behaviour and addressing that with her, rather than addressing the adverse behaviour itself.

We talked about what was worrying her. We talked about anxiety and other emotions and how they made us feel in our minds and bodies. We over came some of the obstacles. I told her what she is feeling is normal. Talked to her about some of my own anxiety to show it was normal feelings (obvs child way). We focused on deep breathing at the school and on the yard waiting to go in so that she had the skills to calm herself down before the panic set in.

Wonder if something like this would help you guys?

Can the school support you to leave differently for a few weeks?

So can you collect from the classroom and pop in whilst she gathers her things, or can she hang back for five mins and help the teacher tidy. And can you then exit the playground quickly and calmly when its not noisy and stressful. See if it makes any difference?

This does seem unusual. My DD is a 7 year old year 3 and hasn't had meltdowns for a few years now. She communicates her distress in a more age appropriate way. So it sounds like something is going on here.

Your game is genius op! I also like pp suggestion of count the red cars, cats, busses etc. We used to count steps between lampposts, to the end of the street or bus stop etc. What about a game of 'in my grandmother's chest' or 'in dds schoolbag' and each add an item then repeat the whole list (got me up a mountain, literally!)

She sounds exactly like DD's best friend. DD is now 11 and while her best friend has calmed down, it's been tough on mum. I think that if this solution is working for you both, why not? It's not bullying, it's a means to an end... a port in the storm, OP. It is destressing her, which is invaluable!
DD's friend has sensory issues probably around undiagnosed ASD for which she has recently been assessed (I'm not sure what the outcome is). Some kids are just more neurologically sensitive than others, is my layman's take on things (my son is autisitic, so I've had a lot of time to ponder and come up with all sorts of 'theories' ).

Girls on the spectrum do present differently than boys. They mask.
And I get the impression that your DD is boiling over by day's end and releasing all of the pent-up tension and stress from school onto you, her person of trust. You get all the kicks because, ironically, she can let go with you- it's a good thing, in an aggravating way. She trusts you. But you're the only person who can 'hear' what she's trying to say which is

"I'm STRESSED!!!!"

She just doesn't know how to express it in any other way yet.

I worked as a TA in a school for autistic children and the one thing I learned very quickly is that autistic people need calm. We ALL need calm. I actually think autistic people have life nailed. We live in way too frenetic a world and school can be a frenzy of chaos resulting in chronic sensory overload.

I would demand (not ask but TELL the SENCO and her teacher) time in the sensory space. Your DD can take breathers in a designated sensory room or space- all schools should have one.
This is a space where your DD can, throughout the day, regroup and recharge. I know for my son, the school gives him breaks from the classroom. He can go outside or in the sensory space and just zen out.

I could go on and on, but what I'd say is this, get your GP to refer DD to paediatrics for an assessment. It could be ASD, it could just be sensory issues on their own, it could be ADHD on its own or in tandem with ASD (they are good bedfellows). The problem is, society is presented with this crude interpretation of neurological disorders. We're kind of told that ASD people are unemotional, mute, and that ASD presents itself as something akin to Rainman and we haven't really deviated from that path, which makes it really hard for parents to seek help for their child who might be passionate, angry, warm, loving, talkative, creative, and all sorts of things that the ASD stereotype doesn't present (stereotypes exist for a reason, but they can be woefully wrong and feed ignorance).
So, I'd plug her into paediatrics and start her on a pathway of support. It will really help both you and her.
Keep life low key, low stress. Pace your mornings. Choose your battles. Play the silent game! If anything it's destressing her! Kids with sensory issues get stressed easily. Ask about the sensory room at school. Talk to the SENCO in the meantime about getting support and your concerns around your DD. She needs some TLC and support at school.

I have a similar DD and I've veered between probably autistic, probably not autistic and everything inbetween over the years. And you know what? It doesn't really matter. A lot of the techniques that work for autistic children work for her and that's what matters at the moment. I'm not saying don't look into a diagnosis , but just that you can start looking into techniques that might help whether or not a diagnosis comes later.

Oh, and maybe have a think about how much your family member needs to be told about your daughter.

I wanted to chime in to echo the 'yes I recognise this behaviour '.

My son once let it all fall out of his mouth and said, at school it is so hard and I just can't keep it in any more. My daughter put on a huge show at school to behave as she thought was expected of her. It took monumental effort to understand what was going on around her and to practice the right behaviour but it was totally exhausting for her and she ran out of energy. I homeschooled her for a while, worked with a wondeful psychologist who taught her about beliefs, values and behaviours. She is now in secondary and that has been a rollercoaster with me constantly reminding teachers that she does not have to conform to their expectations and that she needs places of refuge and quiet.

Not bullying at all. You sound like a lovely, caring Mum, clearly doing a great job.

@BoredZelda

“She’s not like that here”

I wonder how many parents, particularly of children with ASD, have heard that? It is a get out clause for the school and handily, let’s them blame the parent for the behaviour.

DD has a friend with ASD who does brilliantly at school, but he melts down as soon as he gets home. Ever heard of the shaken coke bottle theory? You can shake it all day with no problem, but the minute you take the lid off, it’s a problem.

She says she finds it hard and gets tired. What exactly is it she finds hard? It might not be just the work, if she is spending all day keeping her feelings in check, no wonder she is tired. Might be worth speaking to the school again or to the GP to see if they can do a bit more digging.

100per cent this. OP you say the headteacher is unconcerned, that to me is not good enough. School should be working with you to offer support. We battled on for years like this until DD was finally diagnosed with ASD. She is high functioning, has a degree and a masters and a lovely family of her own now but OMG the stress we went through until we got proper help and support. You shouldn't be having to find solutions by yourself and my heart goes out to you.

i often used the quiet game when my kids were little. You are giving her an outlet when she gets home so it is a temporary measure so she doesn't show herself up in the playground. I think this is a positive intervention.

I think you are very clever managing her tantrums this way. Well done!

No I don't think you're a bully at all. It's a great way to help her to self regulate.

I do think this all sounds like classic masking though. She's "fine" in school, progressing well etc. But having meltdowns when she's with her safe person. You.

It's bizarre but so many teachers still have no idea how neurodiversity presents in girls.

Are you in a position to afford a private assessment for your daughter?

@rougemouse

No I don't think you're a bully at all. It's a great way to help her to self regulate.

I do think this all sounds like classic masking though. She's "fine" in school, progressing well etc. But having meltdowns when she's with her safe person. You.

It's bizarre but so many teachers still have no idea how neurodiversity presents in girls.

Are you in a position to afford a private assessment for your daughter?

Unfortunately not, I'm a single parent and while we have enough private healthcare is beyond my means.

I have put an online form thing in with my GP to discuss it with him so hopefully we can sort something.

This happened to a close friend of mine and it turned out her daughter had learning difficulties, hence the meltdowns at school/after school as she really hated going.
I should add that the issue isn't autism, it's dyslexia or something related to this. The child gets very frustrated either going or coming back from school and would melt down and scream as she couldn't follow what was going on in class.

Of course your experience doesn't mean that this is the case, but it could be one thing to investigate and take off the list?

Ignore her unwanted advice.
I have dealt with two major meltdowns before 8.30am school refuser DD (12) is having an awful time in her new school and DS (6) decide to meltdown over his socks then refused everything from there.
Two red faced children off to school.
One of these mornings I am going to have a heart attack.

See an occupational therapist if anyone for an assessment report. it is the cheapest route to open doors, then referral from GP on the back of the report.
Both of my meltdown DC have ASD and SPD.

@DoIBully I'm sorry to have suggested that when it's not possible. It wasn't for us either and the wait for NHS is long. Great you've taken first steps though and you're doing a great job with the game youve invented. You're doing your best and ignore the unwanted advice x

Of course it’s not bullying your daughter! People like this really piss me off. Quick to criticise, not so quick to offer a viable alternative that might work.

As for your tactic, nothing wrong with it. I do similar with my son who has ASD and other issues when we are out and about and he is tired/overloaded and I want to prevent him from going into meltdown. Distracting him and making him think of something else is often the best way to do this. Other times, silence is best on the walk home because his senses are overloaded and he just needs some peace to process his thoughts.

I hope your daughter’s meltdowns subside as she gets used to the new term starting and being back at school.

Is she eating and drinking enough at school? My DD was like this (agree it's extremely embarrassing and stressful) until I realised she was barely eating her school dinner or snacks.

I started her on packed lunches ensuring plenty of favourite foods and decent snacks. I also made sure she had a specific amount to drink before school and a really good breakfast.

I think my DD may be on the spectrum. I've noticed that she only really ever rages and lashes out when she's hungry. We joke now that's she's getting 'hangry'. Whereas my younger DC can simply ask for food and tell me they are hungry she really has never done that.

Just a thought. Good luck x