I HATE paying Council Tax. It's the bill I hate the most.

[flashbac]

Council Tax is regressive and unfair.

It takes more money from lower income individuals.

It has no link to the actual value of a property.

In addition to linking council tax to value, the bands also need to increase in range in order to reflect the vast difference in property values.

How can it be right that a million pound property in Westminster is the same or (often lower) CT rate than a 2 up, 2 down house in Yorkshire?

I see others have mentioned it, but council tax is a very unfair tax. I live alone and only get a 25% discount on my council tax bill. Next door there are 4 adults, so they are getting it cheaper per person than me. I feel it should definitely take into account number of people in a house.

@Blossomtoes

I definitely think some sort of rate per m2 makes more sense and less arguments

How would that help the people mentioned in your first paragraph?

I'd increase the discount for single people. But at the same time holiday houses / air bnbs should have an premium on them as the owners aren't contributing all year round to the local economy.

I'm definitely anti the idea of it being replaced with some sort of income tax as second home owners are likely to end up paying less. And they'd be no incentive for landlords to ensure their place is occupied.

@MeAndDebbieMcGee
If you changed it to an income tax, how do you deal with business owners who get paid in dividends and how do you encourage landlords to keep their places occupied, and should air bnb people get off free?

Nah, not change it to income tax. Just have it as more of a top up tax. It's crackers that councils have to budget for services they are legally required to provide and that residents of an area have to fund them. If something is required, that should come from general taxation. It would make it a lot more straightforward in terms of discretionary spending and charities too because rn if something's supposed to be funded but isn't - because eg the council doesn't have the money for it - it's really hard to get funding for it elsewhere.

I think we could do with switching it back to being a property tax really. Most other countries have one. Rn council tax acts as a sort of property tax but over a third of households don't actually own their homes. If it reverted to being a property tax those households would still be contributing via presumably rent but it would be the owner that's liable. This would also get a bit from landlords and airbnb etc. There's a lot of money sloshing around in the various types of letting and subsidiary rights to do with land that isn't really making its way to the regions those properties are in.

@MeAndDebbieMcGee

Nah, not change it to income tax. Just have it as more of a top up tax. It's crackers that councils have to budget for services they are legally required to provide and that residents of an area have to fund them. If something is required, that should come from general taxation. It would make it a lot more straightforward in terms of discretionary spending and charities too because rn if something's supposed to be funded but isn't - because eg the council doesn't have the money for it - it's really hard to get funding for it elsewhere.

I think we could do with switching it back to being a property tax really. Most other countries have one. Rn council tax acts as a sort of property tax but over a third of households don't actually own their homes. If it reverted to being a property tax those households would still be contributing via presumably rent but it would be the owner that's liable. This would also get a bit from landlords and airbnb etc. There's a lot of money sloshing around in the various types of letting and subsidiary rights to do with land that isn't really making its way to the regions those properties are in.

That still wouldn't solve the fact a person living on their own only gets a 25% discount, when 4 adults in a house next door pay less per person for those same services. It should really be based on individuals all paying a fair share.

Aye that's true and I'm single so it certainly pisses me off that I'm paying 50% more than each of my neighbours. But if it was only for funding add ons I wouldn't be so aerated about it. I'm more than happy to contribute to things that we as a country need to provide through general taxation. Not quite so happy about paying more just because I happen to live in a region that needs more elderly care than Westminster.

Essentially council tax is a form of property tax, paid by the occupants.
Having it paid by the owner then means they'll bump rent up to cover it making it even more unfair on single people as they'd be no single person discount, they'd be paying the rent inc the property tax.

That’s business rates. Council tax is retained by local authorities
Apologies, you’re correct.

What I mean is that all of the money required to run a council comes from council tax or business rates. A lot of them get topped up by central government grants anyway. But those grants have been cut. As a result, councils are hamstrung as they can only raise rates so far.

Definitely agree it should also be more fair across all regions of the country!

Those have always been the rules for Council Tax, the re-band for an extension takes place upon sale.

Or does it? Theoretically it might be possible but realistically who is monitoring this given the initial valuation didn’t note down the size of the house, it was just based on general impression on a ‘second gear’ drive by? You could have added an extension in 1995 (or not) I’m not sure anyone is really taking this in as, to the best of my knowledge, there is no process to do this during a sale and changes could go back decades.

I think that many of us would feel better if there were a proper, consistent system of auditing the efficiency of local authorities which they are unable to manipulate. The amount of 'managers' i.e. work-dodging bureaucrats in my local council is stunning; they have been on a long 'shirk from home' holiday since the beginning of COVID, leaving office staff to field phone calls with no support whatsoever, and consequently no proper service provision. The culture of our LA (ERYC) is absolutely shocking, and if it were a private business it would have gone bankrupt years ago. This has an impact on the community by failure of service provision, cynicism by local residents and resentment at these ridiculous salaries, job titles and work-dodging. So much money could be saved if local authorities were run in a businesslike way with genuine accountability.

@Restzol

Those have always been the rules for Council Tax, the re-band for an extension takes place upon sale.

Or does it? Theoretically it might be possible but realistically who is monitoring this given the initial valuation didn’t note down the size of the house, it was just based on general impression on a ‘second gear’ drive by? You could have added an extension in 1995 (or not) I’m not sure anyone is really taking this in as, to the best of my knowledge, there is no process to do this during a sale and changes could go back decades.

Our house was reassessed when we moved as the previous owner had extended.

@Belladonna12 I just stole this explanation from another Mumsnet thread!
‘The VOA is informed by building control of any alterations/extensions, plus planning permission and they also monitor sale prices of houses when they are higher than expected.

If you needed planning or building regs they put a flag next to your house on the VOA website which says it may be rebanded after a sale. You can check this yourself on their website.’

It does rather beg the question of why the review can’t be applied to the original owners. Maybe the thinking is to encourage renovation? Definitely worth knowing about if you are buying.

There is an assumption being made that if there are say three adults in a household that all of them contribute to the Council Tax. Dh and I own our home. We are the liable people for the Council Tax so we pay it. Ds who works full time still lives at home. We don't ask him to contribute to the Council Tax bill as he is not liable for it, and as it is based on two people, him being here makes no difference.

Mine is nearly £4000!!! I hardly use council services compared to many. I wish they would just abolish it and use central Gov revenues for things. We have taxes coming out our ears at every turn these days. Highest taxation since the 1950s.

@Xenia

Mine is nearly £4000!!! I hardly use council services compared to many. I wish they would just abolish it and use central Gov revenues for things. We have taxes coming out our ears at every turn these days. Highest taxation since the 1950s.

Where do you think the increased government revenue would come from? Your income tax would go up so you’d still be paying it in a different way.

Not as unfair as business rates. We had a small, about 800sq ft shop in a small Northern city. Business rates when we closed in 2018 were over £25,000 per year. We were in a covered shopping centre and had another £10,000 to pay the landlord as service charge to pay for the upkeep of the mall and waste removal. Both rose every year by more than the rate of inflation. This was on top of £50,000 rent per year. I wonder why there are so many empty shops in town centres?

Matilda maybe we were naive but didn't realise we would be rebanded. It was marketed as a band C, and then moved up to band E on reassessment. Had no idea this was a thing until someone came knocking on the door.
We could have bought smaller of course and extended but that's not the point.
The fact this process has always been the rules doesn't make it fair. Why wait until sale to reband? What's the justification?

@MeAndDebbieMcGee

Aye that's true and I'm single so it certainly pisses me off that I'm paying 50% more than each of my neighbours. But if it was only for funding add ons I wouldn't be so aerated about it. I'm more than happy to contribute to things that we as a country need to provide through general taxation. Not quite so happy about paying more just because I happen to live in a region that needs more elderly care than Westminster.

If you are in the England you should get a 25% discount for single person occupancy. www.gov.uk/apply-for-council-tax-discount

@Xenia

Mine is nearly £4000!!! I hardly use council services compared to many. I wish they would just abolish it and use central Gov revenues for things. We have taxes coming out our ears at every turn these days. Highest taxation since the 1950s.

Unless you are one of the top third of earners you still have the lowest rate of income taxation in the EU, one of the lowest effective rates of VAT (note effective rate, not headline rate, because we do not charge VAT on food, we're as most countries charge it at 5-12.5%), our council tax is roughly equivalent to the municipal or regional taxes in other European countries.

Apart from that your "Highest taxation since the 1950s" only applies to higher and additional rate income tax payers, if you are on the basic rate (up to £50k pa) then you have a tax rate low by historical standards due to the large tax free allowance.

@cptartapp

Matilda maybe we were naive but didn't realise we would be rebanded. It was marketed as a band C, and then moved up to band E on reassessment. Had no idea this was a thing until someone came knocking on the door. We could have bought smaller of course and extended but that's not the point. The fact this process has always been the rules doesn't make it fair. Why wait until sale to reband? What's the justification?

Your conveyancing solicitor should have pointed it out to you if you did not know yourself, they should have made it clear when they checked the extension met building standards and had the relevant planning.

And thats the problem because he isn't paying his share so essentially getting free services, when he is older and if he never reads council tax and requires social care support from the council he will never have paid into it. Other people will subsidise him and why ahould they when he works and earns, all because he wasnt liable for it.

Thats why the poll tax to a certain extent addressed this imbalance.

Also as two people splitting council tax you still pay less per person than a single person on one income. Yet again if you need social care support you paid in less than a single person who needs it..is that fair? No it isn't.

I am in a 3 bed house which is Band B.
I hate paying it too. But then I am paying to have my bins collected, pay for the fire brigade and police if needed, pay for upkeep of public areas etc, pay for adult social care etc.

Note that only 7% of Westminster's income comes from Council Tax.

This table (xl spreadsheet) is interesting - it shows the number of properties in each band for all councils in England and Wales.
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/920362/Table_CTSOP1.0_2020.xlsx
The median house in Sheffield is in band A, in Westminster it is in band E.

The 58th percentile house in Sheffield is in band A (£1327 council tax). The 58th percentile house in Westminster is in band F (£1195 council tax).

If you are in the England you should get a 25% discount for single person occupancy.

@Lincslady53 indeed. So I pay 75%. They pay 50% each. So I pay 50% more than each of them does.