I HATE paying Council Tax. It's the bill I hate the most.

[flashbac]

Council Tax is regressive and unfair.

It takes more money from lower income individuals.

It has no link to the actual value of a property.

In addition to linking council tax to value, the bands also need to increase in range in order to reflect the vast difference in property values.

How can it be right that a million pound property in Westminster is the same or (often lower) CT rate than a 2 up, 2 down house in Yorkshire?

Someone taking home £10k pcm would be paying £7,138 pcm in tax if PAYE, or £4,166 pcm if remunerated entirely in dividend (although that would already have had £41,750 of CT paid on it first.

Someone on £10k a month and on paye would take home approx £6200 pcm, so there's no way they are paying over £7k pcm just in tax.

The take home pay is quite an interesting angle though.

National living wage = £1290 pcm
Real living wage = £1355 pcm
National average wage = £2050 pcm
£100k earner = £5560 pcm
£250k earner = £11970 pcm
£1m earner = £45100 pcm

So that means someone on 100k a year has around £4200 per month more in their pocket than the government deems to be a living wage. And yet here we have you arguing that the rich can't possibly pay any more. Considering the top 10% of the UK have more wealth than the remaining 90% I'd say they can afford to be a fuck load more tax than they currently do.

@wedwewerpink

Do you still pay council tax if you are unemployed?

No

You do here. People who are on the dole pay 15% here.

@MeAndDebbieMcGee

You do here. People who are on the dole pay 15% here.

Yes, you pay some of it.

Yep!

I have a new build. How can they possibly guess what it’s value would have been years ago? I’m in the same band as houses 3 times the size and price of mine down the road as a result. But no grounds for appeal as it’s based on guesswork.

Even more annoying we have to pay an extra charge to have the roads, trees and children’s park on the estate maintained as it’s an unadopted road so the council tax doesn’t cover that. Yet the park is public and used by children not living on the estate and so not contributing to its maintenance. Not that I begrudge that but surely this is what council tax is for?

The way council tax is calculated means some people aren't paying their fair share for local services.

There's us (2 adults and 1 DC In a small house) paying more than a neighbour along the road who's the owner of a 6 bed detached house with several acres of land and 5 children in the household (yet their breadwinner is a self employed business owner who takes his pay in dividends, wife as the ltd company secretary).

Now their kids are teens, the amount of landfill into the community bins, road use with several cars, etc, it's ridiculous that council tax is intended to pay for local services yet due to the bizarre valuations from years ago we pay more every year.?!

How is that even close to being rational or reasonable?!

It needs a massive overhaul.

I once tried to get us rebanded but it was about 2 months after the deadline to challenge it - apparently you can only challenge it within 6 months of moving in and I was a few weeks too late.

Another batshit reason / process that I have to comply with or face jail.

I'm a law abiding, tax paying citizen but the council tax system is a fucking joke.

Who the fuck knows what council tax is for though really? Our council gets loads of money off us and seems to spend it all on fucking bollards. It's a mystery to me.

And yes like you our very small 10 year old flat is apparently worth more than a period property with far more space due to them, as far as I can tell, pulling a valuation figure out of their arsehole.

@GobbleHobble we successfully challenged years after moving in and got rebranded and nice rebate. There’s a good article on Money Saving Expert we used.

@GobbleHobble

The way council tax is calculated means some people aren't paying their fair share for local services.

There's us (2 adults and 1 DC In a small house) paying more than a neighbour along the road who's the owner of a 6 bed detached house with several acres of land and 5 children in the household (yet their breadwinner is a self employed business owner who takes his pay in dividends, wife as the ltd company secretary).

Now their kids are teens, the amount of landfill into the community bins, road use with several cars, etc, it's ridiculous that council tax is intended to pay for local services yet due to the bizarre valuations from years ago we pay more every year.?!

How is that even close to being rational or reasonable?!

It needs a massive overhaul.

I once tried to get us rebanded but it was about 2 months after the deadline to challenge it - apparently you can only challenge it within 6 months of moving in and I was a few weeks too late.

Another batshit reason / process that I have to comply with or face jail.

I'm a law abiding, tax paying citizen but the council tax system is a fucking joke.

I once tried to get us rebanded but it was about 2 months after the deadline to challenge it - apparently you can only challenge it within 6 months of moving in and I was a few weeks too late

I just challenged ours and we have been living here two years. We got a refund. Write to the valuation office.

@Madwife123

Yep!

I have a new build. How can they possibly guess what it’s value would have been years ago? I’m in the same band as houses 3 times the size and price of mine down the road as a result. But no grounds for appeal as it’s based on guesswork.

You could use this www.nationwide.co.uk/house-price-index to work out what, based on house price movements, a house that you paid £X for when you bought it would have been worth on 1/4/91. You would have to start by guessing at a 1991 value and refining it till you get the right answer. You could then work out your band from this www.gov.uk/guidance/understand-how-council-tax-bands-are-assessed. No idea if this would be grounds for appeal but might be interesting.

I hate paying this. I pay £180!! My SIL pays £110 in the same area ? How
Iv never paid so much in my life

Absolutely hate it. Of all the bills I pay this one is the one I resent the most.

'As it is I'm resenting the thought it's going to cost me mega £££ to sort the lease out if I ever want to sell my flat.'

You must have been aware of the short lease when you bought your flat? Your solicitor would have advised you.

@Madwife123

Even more annoying we have to pay an extra charge to have the roads, trees and children’s park on the estate maintained as it’s an unadopted road so the council tax doesn’t cover that. Yet the park is public and used by children not living on the estate and so not contributing to its maintenance. Not that I begrudge that but surely this is what council tax is for?

Developers are required to offer the chance to bid for the maintenance of their green spaces contracts to local councils. The councils want to do them and would absorb the extra costs into their council tax budget so the cost was shared over the whole area. But obviously they have to offer good value to all residents too so they aren't going to bung developers wads of cash to do it.

The developers then give the contracts to private companies who charge the residents a maintenance fee to cover the costs instead.

It's completely stupid and causes a lot of unnecessary resentment that councils can't do anything about because its all in the hands of developers.

@Bucanarab

Someone taking home £10k pcm would be paying £7,138 pcm in tax if PAYE, or £4,166 pcm if remunerated entirely in dividend (although that would already have had £41,750 of CT paid on it first.

Someone on £10k a month and on paye would take home approx £6200 pcm, so there's no way they are paying over £7k pcm just in tax.

The take home pay is quite an interesting angle though.

National living wage = £1290 pcm
Real living wage = £1355 pcm
National average wage = £2050 pcm
£100k earner = £5560 pcm
£250k earner = £11970 pcm
£1m earner = £45100 pcm

So that means someone on 100k a year has around £4200 per month more in their pocket than the government deems to be a living wage. And yet here we have you arguing that the rich can't possibly pay any more. Considering the top 10% of the UK have more wealth than the remaining 90% I'd say they can afford to be a fuck load more tax than they currently do.

Er... no, you are wrong.

Take home is net. To take home £10k pcm you need to earn £17,138 pcm (if your income is consistent from month to month) on PAYE.

I am not "arguing that the rich can't possibly pay more", I actually said that they should pay more, but that everyone should pay more.

It seems though that you are part of the problem. In Norway, Germany, Sweden etc. people accept that everyone has to make a contribution and because of that they have much better services and benefits, from higher pensions, to better schools, roads without potholes, better health services and social care. But you and your ilk always want "someone else" to pay more, that someone is never you.

I am prepared to pay more tax for a better society, people like me, people who earn more than me, people who earn less than me, we should all pay more tax. I want a better society and am prepared to contribute to that myself, can you say the same?

@SushiGo
In the area where I live there have been lots of new build estates over the last ten years, the council has refused point blank to take on any of the developments, despite them having to not pay anything up front, but only to take on everything on the same as they would on any other road.

The councils do not care as they can still charge council tax on those properties, whilst having no costs associated with ongoing maintenance. On the plus side it did mean the council could not block the measure that were put in place on several of them to deal with boy racers and other people trying to use them as rat runs, the council did have a big tantrum about that though.

Hi, I lived in Westminster and was amazed at how low our council tax was - having just moved from lewisham .....

My flat mates also told me how one year it was refunded back at the end of the year due to the surplus.

The reasoning we thought in that borough is the business rates provide a high level of income for the council. This is the borough that has the west end and Oxford street

I live in a unitary authority that was formed post 1991 amalgamating three areas that were previously three separate authorities. I looked at one of the three areas and can’t believe the council tax bands assigned to properties - they are so much lower than the other two areas. The only bands that seem comparable are the new builds.

The method of assigning a band was described as a ‘second gear valuation’ as that was how it was done without even stopping the car. My house is all front no depth and band f was selected. My work colleague has a ‘terrace’ which is actually a barn conversion worth twice the price of my house yet is band d. Add to that the family down the road with five adults living there all working, paying the same as me, and using the services offered by the council. So much inequality…

Having lived in properties worth more than a million in Chelsea and Fulham I was shocked to find the council tax on a back to back terraced house in Lancashire was more.

I have mixed feelings as the poll tax idea was a disaster but 5 adults living next door pay the same council tax as me as a single.

Interestingly I feel I am paying more to live in a nice rural village where the cost of services are higher per head and maybe that’s reasonable and my choice.

For London it is the squeezed middle that feel it. Hence all the MN threads about not being able to live on £50K salaries.

If you are in London and your housing costs are heavily subsidised through HA, or you live in council housing then the reality is other costs such as public transport and council tax are actually lower than other areas.

Not sure what the answer is.

The government is too scared to change the council tax bands because it’s been so long, house prices have changed so much, they know it’ll cause a huge huge issue for their core voters if they do.

In London, some boroughs are allowed to keep business rates so that’s why you get differing rates. Also different boroughs have different needs.

So, boroughs like croydon have massive amounts of deprivation, unaccompanied asylum seekers and adults/children social care costs etc but business rate generation is not as high as Westminster.

Also councils don’t keep all the council tax. It goes into central government who redistribute it according to a dodgy formula. Councils are just the front for the tax. They’re highly restricted on what rates they can set.

@MeAndDebbieMcGee

Who the fuck knows what council tax is for though really? Our council gets loads of money off us and seems to spend it all on fucking bollards. It's a mystery to me.

And yes like you our very small 10 year old flat is apparently worth more than a period property with far more space due to them, as far as I can tell, pulling a valuation figure out of their arsehole.

The money paid via council tax does not go directly to the council.

It goes all into a central pot, and central government decide how much each council gets back.

@Iggly

The government is too scared to change the council tax bands because it’s been so long, house prices have changed so much, they know it’ll cause a huge huge issue for their core voters if they do.

In London, some boroughs are allowed to keep business rates so that’s why you get differing rates. Also different boroughs have different needs.

So, boroughs like croydon have massive amounts of deprivation, unaccompanied asylum seekers and adults/children social care costs etc but business rate generation is not as high as Westminster.

Also councils don’t keep all the council tax. It goes into central government who redistribute it according to a dodgy formula. Councils are just the front for the tax. They’re highly restricted on what rates they can set.

Every local council now gets to keep some or all of their business rates now. In wealthy areas they get to keep a lower proportion

The government is too scared to change the council tax bands because it’s been so long, house prices have changed so much, they know it’ll cause a huge huge issue for their core voters if they do.

I'd agree they want to change it but there isn't and easy answer on how to change it. May be it should be a straight forward price per m2. With different rates for flats, terrace, semi, detached. Or an additional rate for garden area.

Which keeps it tied to the property, less subjective on what was the value of a house 30 years ago on a street that didn't exist, and should be easy to calculate.

How did they calculate rates back in the day?