I HATE paying Council Tax. It's the bill I hate the most.

[flashbac]

Council Tax is regressive and unfair.

It takes more money from lower income individuals.

It has no link to the actual value of a property.

In addition to linking council tax to value, the bands also need to increase in range in order to reflect the vast difference in property values.

How can it be right that a million pound property in Westminster is the same or (often lower) CT rate than a 2 up, 2 down house in Yorkshire?

@Lockdownbear
My parents paid for my education through their rates though.

And before anyone jumps on me I don't actually mind paying for other people's kids to be educated, safe and healthy. I'm getting on, they'll be looking after me when I'm in a care home. I need them to be fit for the job while I entertain them with Spidey66: The Thatcher Years.

@Spidey66

I remember thinking at the time a fairer system would be a certain % of your income, say 5% or something. That to me is the fairest way.

I really, seriously suffered in the poll tax era. In fact I could quite easily have gone to prison, if it wasn't for the fact I kept moving to evade it. Imprisoned for living on the poverty line. That's not right.

Some countries do charge a local income tax, sometimes with a minimum monthly payment, sometimes with minimum allowance, almost always with a cap.

The massive negative attribute of a tax increasing annually in line with property prices cancels out the positive attributes, at least for me.

Perhaps an opportunity for the government to stop introducing measures that falsely inflate house prices? Increases in normal times would be no higher than the annual council tax rise.

@CorrBlimeyGG

The "rich" already pay far more tax than the "poor".

It makes sense that those who have more, pay more. If I take home £10K a month, I have far more disposable income than someone who brings home £1K. Why would I not give some of that up to provide better public services?

Someone bringing home £1k a month will pay virtually no income taxation (IT+NI), in many cases their cash benefits would exceed the tax paid. Their likely effective rate of income taxation taxation (tax+benefits) would range from 3% to having negative tax, up to 100% negative tax if their benefits are high enough.

Someone taking home £10k pcm would be paying £7,138 pcm in tax if PAYE, or £4,166 pcm if remunerated entirely in dividend (although that would already have had £41,750 of CT paid on it first.

The "rich" pay considerably more both as a percentage and as an absolute. The disparity between what the "rich" pay is the highest in the EU, the top third of earners have the sixth highest rate of income taxation in the EU, the bottom two thirds have the lowest rate of income taxation in the EU.

@Dreamstate No, it wasn't fairer as everyone in that household over the age of 18 had to pay it, and everyone in that household had to pay exactly the same, in their own name. Each person got an individual bill.
So, if you were a sahp for example with no income of your own, you had to still pay it, or be taken to court and possibly even jailed, so if you were lucky then your husband / partner would pay it, so he ended up paying twice.
The same with children living at home over the age of 18, if they were unemployed, remember in the 80s, unemployment was huge, they still had a percentage to pay.
The system was very unfair and very flawed.

@CorrBlimeyGG

The massive negative attribute of a tax increasing annually in line with property prices cancels out the positive attributes, at least for me.

Perhaps an opportunity for the government to stop introducing measures that falsely inflate house prices? Increases in normal times would be no higher than the annual council tax rise.

There are two main reasons for the increases in property prices both relate to the core of supply and demand. The population has increased 10% in the last 20 years and the planning laws limit the rate at which dwellings can be increased. Stamp Duty holidays and Help to Buy have an impact, but over time they just average out the trends which were already in place anyway. The other big cause of house price increases over time is more women entering the workplace, this gave families two incomes, allowing them to offer more and more as their disposable income increased.

If we want to see house prices fall we need home building to exceed population growth and we also need people to stop getting into a bidding war over property. Other potentially more controversial measures might include making property a less profitable investment vehicle, but that says more about the wider economy than it does about housing.

I really resent the annual council tax increase, whilst funding is cut and the councillors award themselves fat pay increases on their already over inflated salaries (£100k - £200k)

@NewPapaGuinea

I really resent the annual council tax increase, whilst funding is cut and the councillors award themselves fat pay increases on their already over inflated salaries (£100k - £200k)

Ours don’t get paid anything apart from expenses.

Ours neither.

The only time I've really objected was when Hampshire's PCC demanded a 400% increase. That really was contemptible.

It got him deselected thank goodness.

Yanbu it's a shocking amount of money really and most councils are shit and bent.

Also it's just fucking stupid to have a tax that changes from county to county.

Maybe it’s not councillors I meant, but the Chief Executives and various department heads.

@NewPapaGuinea

I really resent the annual council tax increase, whilst funding is cut and the councillors award themselves fat pay increases on their already over inflated salaries (£100k - £200k)

Where in the UK is this.

In Scotland the basic councillor salary is £18K although committee chairs get more.

Wales it's £14K

Much of England councillors only get expenses. Some areas it's £18K

I dislike it being linked to property prices. It would be much fairer done per person in the house household as the more people the more services used etc.

www.bucksherald.co.uk/news/politics/council/18-bucks-council-chief-executives-earn-salaries-in-excess-of-ps100000-3193054

"I've worked abroad and was taxed more. However I didn't feel put out because the money I got after that was all mine. No silly council tax and water rates to pay on top.

Yes it meant I paid more than someone who earned less than me, but then someone else who earned more than me paid more.

In my case taking it of my earnings meant I actually had more money left than I had working in the UK on a similar salary."

It's partly just that you didn't pay it directly. Where I live the local tax is paid from income tax and the only time I think about it is if I have to pay more at the end of the year. You don't make a monthly payment so you're not aware of it.
When I lived in the UK it was my biggest expense after rent and I paid the council directly so obviously I was very aware of it.

This government love regressive taxes

Council tax has been around for ever.

I live in Copenhagen- we don’t have it here, I kept asking about it when we moved and couldn’t understand they didn’t know what I was talking about — personal tax is higher generally but we don’t have council tax and services are way higher, also great childcare at around £200 a month for full time care for those with little ones. Utilities are lower too . They don’t have national insurance either- tax and NI is rolled into one. Overall it kind of evens out but the big difference is minimum wage of £14 an hour and a lot of fairly average jobs pay £40k plus

Councils that are more efficient are able to give better value than others. Wandsworth used to have a low rate and they are a more typical London Borough than Westminster.
Everyone wants decisions taken locally, so you cant complain on SM about it. Complain to your councillors and don't vote for them.
The old rating system was worn out and the idea of each person paying (Poll Tax) led to riots. What system would you like?
Charge everyone except you? They tried that in Brighton. It is actually Labour Party & Green Party policy.

Just as a point of comparison, I have a detached house on two acres of land in a nice suburb north of New York City, and I pay about $8000 per year in school taxes and another $3500 in town property taxes. The town taxes cover police and fire protection, rubbish and recycling collection, libraries, town services for building inspections, snow plowing, parks maintenance, etc. Water is charged by usage.

Commercial properties also pay school and town taxes, which helps lower the burden on homeowners. Taxes are higher in some other nearby towns because they have fewer commercial properties in the tax base. The school system here is really good, so I've never minded paying the school taxes.

also, in a city will be a lot more households in a area than in less densely populated areas.
makes sense that way that an inner london borough has lower ct than a more rural one.

Well said OP. Not to mention if you miss 2 payments (easily done if you've suddenly found yourself on a lower income for whatever reason) the balliffs are banging on your door the next day and they have legal powers to take your car.

YANBU. My council tax bill is almost £3k. Our household income is about £40k max. It's a huge dent for us.

"Why should some rich Chinese investor owner of a 600sqft £5m London flat, who only spends 4 weeks of the year in this country, pay a massive amount of council tax?"

Because he's contributing to a housing crisis by taking a flat out of reach of people who need somewhere to live. He should be paying much more for a second home.

The London CT might also be lower because councils get revenue from tourism, no? It makes sense, if you live in London you have to share your local infrastructure with tourists/visitors and they will pay a share (hotels must contribute to waste disposal for ex).
Having each council set the rate also means autonomy (relatively), if it was set at national level it would just be another black hole tax, everybody would complain it was mismanaged, no inventive for councils to be efficients etc

@Gwenhwyfar

"Why should some rich Chinese investor owner of a 600sqft £5m London flat, who only spends 4 weeks of the year in this country, pay a massive amount of council tax?"

Because he's contributing to a housing crisis by taking a flat out of reach of people who need somewhere to live. He should be paying much more for a second home.

Brava!