To feel I can’t holiday abroad again?

[backoffice]

I feel really guilty using air travel (although it’s so easy!) and used to travel by train through Europe wherever I could. Had a lovely trip planned in 2020 taking in several countries - but all went to pot!

Inter-Europe travel feels very dodgy now with Covid and lack of fresh air etc in carriages. Planes feel safer (shorter trips and good air circulation) but I’m too guilt-ridden because of the environmental impact. Cruises seem just as bad!

I can’t see a way of planning a safe and ethical holiday abroad now. AIBU? How are people justifying it?

Having kids in the west is probably the most anti climate thing you can do OP. How many do you have?

You can open the windows on a train carriage which is better than any hepa filter.

How many modern long distance trains have opening windows?

I live overseas so I'll carry on taking flights once able to. We tend to go short haul for holidays but long haul to visit family. It's not something I'd be prepared to give up tbh.

We're doing other things to try and be environmentally friendly like we've installed solar panels that will meet all our energy needs. I'd be happy to pay extra for flights to offset the environmental impact or if it was possible I'd choose airlines that use green planes (maybe something that will happen in the future...).

Surely if you were that concerned about climate change and your carbon footprint you wouldn't have had kids in the first place?

@Coogee

You can open the windows on a train carriage which is better than any hepa filter.

How many modern long distance trains have opening windows?

Exactly. A lot of them don't, and most people don't wear masks on trains now in the UK. I felt much, much safer flying abroad this summer than taking the train to a UK destination.

I love to travel and yes I do feel guilty about it,

I’m vegan and use oat milk and try to avoid too many environmentally unfriendly food and not wasting it.

I work from home and avoid car use as much as possible

I have solar panels and a wind turbine

I put a jacket on my water tank (£10 from Screwfix and made a massive difference to keeping my hot water hot, even with an insulated tank)

I recycle and buy a minimal amount of stuff and go digital where possible, newspapers, movies, music etc

I do regular litter picking along where I live

I don’t have children

I don’t have a dog, even though I want one -although I do have one cat.

If you care about the climate that much you would not have kids. There are no carbon reducing measures an individual can do that offsets the amount of carbon an additional human in the form of a child will contribute during its lifetime. And don’t get me started on how much carbon multiple children will cause to go into the atmosphere

As I haven’t and will not have children, I’ll continue to fly, drive my 4 litre car and enjoy myself whilst in alive.

I’ve done my bit.

OP do you eat eat and dairy? Cutting them out will make a massive impact on your carbon footprint.

@Rabblesthecat

If you care about the climate that much you would not have kids. There are no carbon reducing measures an individual can do that offsets the amount of carbon an additional human in the form of a child will contribute during its lifetime. And don’t get me started on how much carbon multiple children will cause to go into the atmosphere

As I haven’t and will not have children, I’ll continue to fly, drive my 4 litre car and enjoy myself whilst in alive.

I’ve done my bit.

What an insular way to view this issue.

I had children
But I don’t drive a 4x4 etc. I hardly drive at all in fact.
I recycle, avoid plastic on pain of death etc etc

But no way do I kid myself in to thinking “I do my bit”. I see how pathetic my efforts are, but my human selfishness at wanting children and to travel are more than my commitment to the environment. And that’s the truth. I try where I can but I know that I’m most certainly not “doing my bit”.

And it’s pathetic you think that you are

I took the train to Scotland this summer and almost everyone wore a mask (maybe because for the Scottish part of the journey they were compulsory) and the windows opened and were all open and in fact could not be shut. There were regular announcements asking people to wear masks if possible to respect staff and others so just going on personal experience

I deliberately chose to do that as I felt air travel would be very Covid unsafe. I did not fancy mixing with people from all over the world in an airport or the idea of sitting in a very enclosed space with someone who might be infected (I assume there would be no PCR required for an internal flight) with the air recirculating

Everyone has a different perception of risk I guess but I am surprised that people think flying is much safer. I googled it and the science is equivocal and there's not much in it. It depends on length of journey, time in enclosed airport or station building etc.

Safest re: covid is of course to go in your own car with people who you have vetted yourself but that is not very environmentally friendly

As I haven’t and will not have children, I’ll continue to fly, drive my 4 litre car and enjoy myself whilst in alive.

Are you in US? How can you afford to feed that😂 I fell in love with one car in US series and found out it's 6 liters! WtAAAf.

Surely it was riskier going to crowded Cornwall this summer than to a lot of other countries?

I don’t understand the opening windows on trains either! Cross country trains don’t have opening windows? It’s all aircon.

Yes I have three children but between DH and I six siblings we’ve only had three children so I’ve made an overall reduction.

I don’t think the argument “well we’ve had children so there’s no point doing anything else” is very strong. The planet is fucked though. But I get that most people would rather have fun than make changes, or just feel that individual change is futile.

If you're travelling on a German ICE train, the air condtioning replaces the air every 7 minutes.
www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/pressestart_zentrales_uebersicht/Fragen-und-Antworten-zum-Bahnverkehr-in-Zeiten-von-Corona-4966788

On a French TGV, the air is replaced by the air conditioning every 9 minutes, and on TER trains every 5 to 8 minutes.
www.sncf.com/fr/groupe/newsroom/covid-19-par-climatisation

British trains seem to replace the air at the same rate - 7 to 9 minutes - if Greater Anglia is typical:
www.greateranglia.co.uk/it-safe-use-your-trains-can-i-socially-distance-them

I never really understand those who are so attached to flying for pleasure, anyway.

Because it's a means to an end? Obviously if you want to go anywhere outside Europe driving/train isn't an option, sailing takes weeks. Flying is the best option.

I do get that flying is bad for the planet but so are lots of other things we do like using a tumble dryer, buying fast fashion, driving to the shop rather than walking or filling our house with cheap plastic tat. It's about balance, isn't it.

I genuinely dgaf. At all.

1. climate change activist folk like you say that planet is already fucked so...why would I bother now?
2. I'm supposed to feel guilty about having kids and a car but nobody seems to lay into big corporations and the damage they do or countries like bloody China.

@noprofessional

I genuinely dgaf. At all. 1) climate change activist folk like you say that planet is already fucked so...why would I bother now? 2) I'm supposed to feel guilty about having kids and a car but nobody seems to lay into big corporations and the damage they do or countries like bloody China.

1. Guess you don’t have kids? Agree it won’t make a difference for us but it will for our kids and grandkids if we take action now
2. You’re right that big corporations and countries like China have a lot to answer for but by far the most likely catalyst for change will be consumers. If we change our own behaviours, the behaviour or politicians and large corporations will (eventually) follow. We can’t afford to assume that they will just make the right decisions themselves eventually. We need to make them first

I agree with you OP. I'm still going to take flights but I think the number will be reduced and will take a foreign holiday less often, offsetting the carbon where I can and being more mindful of the destination and the impact on the local environment of tourism. I am also surprised at the number of people on here who couldn't give a rats ass about the environmental impact of flying and are of the "because I can" attitude. This is why we are in this shit imo.

We are in this position because governments have failed to legislate against polluting activities and failed to invest in green alternatives.

It's interesting to look at the breakdown of what sectors are responsible for harmful gas emissions.

ourworldindata.org/emissions-by-sector

Take a look OP. As someone else asked, are you vegan? Livestock and manure accounts for over 5% of emissions as opposed to less than 2% from aviation (the same amount as for landfill). Road transport accounts for almost 12% of emissions, deforestation 2.2%. You can make a huge impact by going vegan, reducing car usage, reducing landfill waste, donating to charities that prevent deforestation. Just because air travel is something you are willing to sacrifice doesn't mean everyone is obliged to make the same sacrifice as you.

Air travel is enjoyable if you fly business or higher, which I do if available on the route I'm going.

They need to crack down much harder on destructive behaviour by companies, before they expect individuals to give up everything they enjoy 'for the sake of the planet'.

Ban junk mail, both the physical version and the endless stream of emails you receive because you look at a website. The energy use behind the servers that produce this is enormous.

Ban plastic wrapped multipacks of cans. You can do multipack pricing by computer, you don't need to wrap cans in multiples of 4/6 etc to do this.

Outlaw offices etc being lit up at night when there is no-one there.

Hopefully the pandemic will have gone a long way towards this, but heavily curb business travel for meetings that can be done online.

Rethink the push to get office workers to needlessly travel back to city centre offices so they can unnecessarily buy their lunch at the likes of Pret instead of making it at home.

If we are 'all in this together' I see a lot of wasteful behaviour by companies that is just sticking two fingers up to individuals

@SuperCaliFragalistic

I agree with you OP. I'm still going to take flights but I think the number will be reduced and will take a foreign holiday less often, offsetting the carbon where I can and being more mindful of the destination and the impact on the local environment of tourism. I am also surprised at the number of people on here who couldn't give a rats ass about the environmental impact of flying and are of the "because I can" attitude. This is why we are in this shit imo.

You agree with the op re flying Yet you’re still going to fly

Confused!

Ban junk mail, both the physical version and the endless stream of emails you receive because you look at a website. The energy use behind the servers that produce this is enormous.

Please someone make this into a regulation