To think I might be getting scammed - again!

[Judithand]

We are doing a huge house renovation and adaption this summer. Our builder recommended a kitchen fitter who came out and gave a quote. The reason I booked him is because he said he would be available.

He asked for 50% deposit in cash and I foolishly paid him.
He kept pushing back the job and eventually just stopped replying. The builder knows his family, and found out he has a drug addiction and has gone missing.

So deposit gone.
I put on social media to find another kitchen fitter for this weekend as we are only waiting for this work before moving home.
As the works were all funded by fundraising and go fund me as my son is disabled it got a lot of traction on social media. I didn’t name the thief but lots of people messaged me knowing who he was and the company he had worked for (family business)

The brother of the scammer contacted the builder, said it looked bad on his business that I was sharing it online. He would come this weekend with his family and fit the kitchen and wardrobes for us.

However it is not the design, spec or colour that we wanted - only what was in stock.

This morning I met the guys at the house and he asked me for 5 grand for the materials and to pay the guys that came to work today.
I didn’t respond just stared at him blankly.

We paid more than 5 grand in deposit. If the materials and labour cost that much then should be not take it up with his brother? Who is not missing at all but in the parents home.
By doing this work and sharing on social media it looks like they’ve done the job for free

So
AIBU - yes just pay for what you got today and deal with scammer later
No - brother should be taking some money from the thief as he knows where he is.

@drpet49

Amazing that they manage to source a kitchen for you with days notice that managed to fit your kitchen perfectly.

And your happy to pay £10k for a kitchen you never chose.

Scam, scam, scam.

or trip trap trip trap

Did you hand any money to the brother who did fit the kitchen over the weekend?

@Notaroadrunner no nothing at all has been handed over. He asked me for 5k and to pay the workers but I didn’t. He has more work to do this week on Wednesday- he may not show up now. But it’s not too much work

So you’ve only paid £7k for a kitchen quoted at £14k?

[quote Judithand]@Notaroadrunner no nothing at all has been handed over. He asked me for 5k and to pay the workers but I didn’t. He has more work to do this week on Wednesday- he may not show up now. But it’s not too much work[/quote]
That's good. At least you've not lost more.

@NavigatingAdolescence

So you’ve only paid £7k for a kitchen quoted at £14k?

But worth about £10k as it wasn't the kitchen op wanted originally. They mightn't be as quick to scam again!

Is it a scam? They haven’t benefitted from the OP (or the donators). A scam would be £15k for £5k worth of work. This way the OP is up by several thousand £££s.

I fail to see any scam here.

I’m confused, has the brother supplied and fitted the new kitchen free of further charge to you?

Unclear how the two brothers are related business wise?

If you paid £7k to the family business then it's not your problem 1 partner stole it and therefore the business should make good or be subject to legal proceedings.

If the brothers are seperate self employed businesses and he just wants to protect his brother (and shared surname?) then it isn't completely unreasonable to request some payment but that should've been clear upfront as it was effectively just a new quote.

I certainly wouldn't pay anything until completion and don't write off the original theft. I would take it more seriously because it wasn't my money to write off.

@drpet49

Amazing that they manage to source a kitchen for you with days notice that managed to fit your kitchen perfectly.

And your happy to pay £10k for a kitchen you never chose.

Scam, scam, scam.

And fitted it in a day?

I don't see how your update makes it a scam. You're got most of a fitted kitchen, but you're not going to pay for it? Who did you report the original scam to? The police? But you asked them not to do anything? That doesn't sound normal procedure.

I wonder how they sourced a kitchen so quickly, maybe another job is missing one or suddenly delayed.

Call me cynical but I suspect you'd be far more upset if this was money coming from your own pocket rather than money from crowd funding.

@DeborahAnnabel you are cynical. The judgement of GoFundMe is thankfully not as evident in real life.
We have taken out a 10 year loan, put every penny of savings, sourced grants AND fundraised for these adaptions. I would rather have a healthy child and my career over donations any day

@butterflyaway no point calling police they will do nothing its classed as a civil matter I know this as we have been conned out of nearly £100k , advancement for materials etc and the fact work was substandard and had to be rectified, trading standards take your complaint then never tell you where it is up to action fraud just pass to trading standards even with a contract your only course is small claims under £10k and anything over is court we are in court process but note he took all our savings and for court it will cost us around £5k more of which he will probably declare bankruptcy then start up again in wife's name, the stress through this has been unbelievable and the lack of help from those you feel should be there to help is also unbelievable.

If you had a quote and paid a deposit what was the outstanding balance only that should be paid however I'd the product was a lesser quality then the quote should have been adjusted to reflect if it wasn't I would consider refusing and following court process which by the sounds of it would be through small claims. I would consider a sit down 1st with the kitchen fitters and you builder with the builder acting as mediator and see where it goes from there by the sounds of it the builder will want to sort to ensure their reputation stays in tact. Word of mouth is always the best advertisement and your builder knows this

Please please please get some legal advice NOW. Citizens Advice should be able to help.

But I don't understand why anybody would have a new kitchen put in that you haven't chosen?

Any update OP?

I feel so sorry for you. A curse on all the greedy, deceitful traders and 'experts' out there.
It is always an idea to put every contract or agreement in writing and get a signature and be prepared to make a fuss. Get a friend to be there, especially when any money changes hands. I have learned to never hand over substantial funds "for materials" and not go for the reduced cost 'for no VAT' work. (They claim it anyway for materials if they are registered).
There are many good and honest businesses out there, and it is sad to have them let down by dishonest cowboys. Unfortunately, if you give a large amount of money to some workmen a switch goes on in their brains and they think that they can get away without doing anything further and just walk off the job.
By the way, kitchen fitting is a skill but a kitchen can be installed by anyone who is practical. I hate 'built in' kitchens because changes and renovations can be highly problematic and kitchen installers do not want to take the jobs on at all if it is a refurb. Clear the kitchen out and just put in free-standing units as much as possible.
When I was a financial advisor I had reason to visit a kitchen contract fitter at his home. It was a small non-descript flat and he and his partner were quite scruffy. He declared his income was very high and I expressed some doubt about it, so he lead me into the kitchen and opened a deep kitchen drawer. It was 30 years ago, there was a recession in 1991, and the drawer was packed full of cash, there must have been £1,000s in there. I was stunned, I felt I was clearly in the wrong job. This was not the only time I encountered working men with stacks of cash, and I realised that this large deposit idea was not necessarily a cash flow necessity, but a scam from a bad businessman.
Get the police involved straight away. Explain what has been happening and insist they take it further if you are not fully reimbursed. If you get threatened tell the police and insist they press charges against the builders for fraud with menaces, and mention the drugs. That may get the bastards' house turned over.