To ask how people will cope with Universal credit cut.

[ponyexpress22]

Surely they aren't going ahead with cutting it by £20 a week? I'm shocked that the government could stoop this low. What the hell are they doing.

@StrangeToSee

Was there ever a plan for financially supporting these three offspring without the dole?

This. Of course OP may have suffered some life changing event that pushed her into reliance on benefits, exempting her from this, but that’s not the case for many families.

It shocks me that people have 3 kids without knowing how they’ll support them financially, or plan for things like how they’d cope if one partner left/died/got ill, or shell out a fortune on swimming lessons when they can’t afford basic meds like Ovex (which is available on the NHS btw).

I feel like a lot of people (not everyone obviously) assumes they’ll get enough in UC, tax credits, FSM, housing benefit etc to raise their family so when a benefit is reduced they’re up in arms against the government!

What’s to stop a parent working PT within school hours to bring in extra income, if £20 a week made such a huge difference?

Where’s the budgeting, financial planning, saving? The £20 was always temporary.

I don't know about OP but my 2 dc were well provided for until my ex became an abusive and frightening cocaine addict that forced me to become a single parent and move 2000 miles for a safer life. I do work 5 days aw week however a combination of a small pay rise in April that caused a disproportionate cut in both housing benefit and tax credits, combined with the loss of the £20 uplift means I am £110 pw - over £500 pm worse off than I was last tax year. Considering I didn't have much spare after things were paid even then means that now I'm scraping around just to meet basics like food, petrol and gas and electric. As a pp said my dc are probably going to have to stop some/if not all of their activities as this situation isn't sustainable long term. How am I going to manage any one off costs? I have already had to borrow money this tax year for school uniform and once for council tax. No idea how I'm going to manage birthdays and Xmas.

Pressed post too soon- meant to add you can't budget when your left over money is zero

@Whammyyammy

And the fact that you use words like 'fraudsters' and 'scroungers' tells me a lot about you.

Then you have those that just don't want to work and will gladly sit back and be payed for doing nothing or say its not worth going to work.

Would you want someone like that (someone who doesn't want to work and wants to sit around doing nothing) as a colleague or employee? Would you want to be their customer or client?

Anyone who actually wants to sit around all day every day year after year has problems. Mental health or difficult/bad life experiences or whatever it is.

It would be better if we offered social services and mental health support, education and training opportunities, encouragement, and positivity, and accepted that a very small minority of people are perhaps unemployable. Give that minority a subsidence payment and then focus on the majority.

Meanwhile the majority of benefit recipients either want to work, are already in work but many jobs are low paid (including lots of essential ones, like social care and cleaning), or are too disabled or ill to work.

Also to those people saying that poor people shouldn't have children because they can't afford them.

Are you advocating a 2 tier society where only well off people should be able to have families? That's not pleasant. In fact it's fascist ideology IMO.

Children often (not always) take care of their parents in old age. Having a child is not like buying an expensive car. It's far more complex.

Anyone who actually wants to sit around all day every day year after year has problems. Mental health or difficult/bad life experiences or whatever it is.

I agree. These threads are always full of people talking about people like this but I've personally never met even one.

I'm sorry things are so difficult for you @Itsnotover. I hope things can get better. You and your children deserve the support you currently need.

What’s to stop a parent working PT within school hours to bring in extra income, if £20 a week made such a huge difference?
Where’s the budgeting, financial planning, saving? The £20 was always temporary

I don't disagree with your first point. But in regards to the second, there is a general expectation on the part of the government that claimants shouldn't be saving them up.

@Tealightsandd

I'm sorry things are so difficult for you *@Itsnotover*. I hope things can get better. You and your children deserve the support you currently need.

Things aren't particularly difficult for me, I wouldn't say compared with some people. I do have a disability. But I work (in a job I can do).

I am a single parent but my children's dad supports them financially.

I don't know about OP but my 2 dc were well provided for until my ex became an abusive and frightening cocaine addict that forced me to become a single parent and move 2000 miles for a safer life. I do work 5 days aw week however a combination of a small pay rise in April that caused a disproportionate cut in both housing benefit and tax credits, combined with the loss of the £20 uplift means I am £110 pw - over £500 pm worse off than I was last tax year. Considering I didn't have much spare after things were paid even then means that now I'm scraping around just to meet basics like food, petrol and gas and electric. As a pp said my dc are probably going to have to stop some/if not all of their activities as this situation isn't sustainable long term. How am I going to manage any one off costs? I have already had to borrow money this tax year for school uniform and once for council tax. No idea how I'm going to manage birthdays and Xmas.

I’m sorry about your situation. As I said in my other post, I think some people are exempt due to a sudden change in life circumstances (like fleeing domestic abuse). It’s a shame benefits can’t be focused on these families, who tried and keep trying so hard to provide for their kids. Instead so many people claim it’s not sustainable for the government. As you experienced, working 5 days a week and getting a small promotion led to a cut in your benefits, which to me seems totally wrong as we should be promoting good work ethic, not penalising people for earning more!

And this happens at every pay level, the more you earn the fewer benefits you get or the more tax you pay, making work and promotion less desirable as it can leave you struggling for basics. And for families who earn more it can mean being unable to pay their rent/mortgage (with rentals hard to come by and a time period needing to elapse before you can re-mortgage this leaves many struggling to keep a roof over their heads).

So many people jumping on to explain the £20 pw was temporary! We know that. But that doesn't make it any easier to lose it when costs have risen. My utilities have gone up £45pm and cost of groceries have risen.

@Babyroobs - I was told I should have had the disabled element straight away as I was in hospital when I claimed. But this didn't happen as 'they didn't know I was in hospital' despite someone from the JC having to come to the hospital to set up the claim!

Are you advocating a 2 tier society where only well off people should be able to have families? That's not pleasant. In fact it's fascist ideology IMO

I’m not advocating this, not sure about others. I do believe people should plan financially before starting a family, and ideally reach a place of financial security and career progression before bringing children into it. Obviously it’s different if pregnancy is accidental, or there’s domestic abuse, chronic illness/disability or a dramatic change in circumstances.

What’s to stop a parent working PT within school hours to bring in extra income, if £20 a week made such a huge difference?

But many people who claim UC already do work those hours! But the maximum hours you could probably work during term time, assuming no wraparound care, is probably about 28 hours a week. An employer is not under obligation to offer a part time worker more hours either and in fact may struggle to do so if their business has suffered due to covid.

I don't know many people complaining about using wraparound care/holiday clubs or other childcare but the issue for many is availability. At my DC school the waiting list for wraparound care is about 2 years, and childminders are fully booked too. I'm lucky to live in an area where there is a choice of holiday clubs but in some areas they are sparse.

And getting a job, particularly if you don't already have one or have recent experience, that offers flexible working/school hours can be extremely difficult.

@Blossomtoes

Our neighbours saved their £20 uc credit extra and currently are on holiday because of it

And you know this how? The reek of bullshit is overpowering.

Doesn’t matter. Perception is reality.

I’m not advocating this, not sure about others. I do believe people should plan financially before starting a family, and ideally reach a place of financial security and career progression before bringing children into it. Obviously it’s different if pregnancy is accidental, or there’s domestic abuse, chronic illness/disability or a dramatic change in circumstances.

Ideally. But some people are never going to be able to earn more than minimum wage and that isn't their fault. If everyone was a HR tax payer, who would do these jobs anyway?

@Itsnotover

My friend does that and openly says she does not want more work as it will.affect her benefits. To her this is not a starement to be ashamed off but what is her lifestyle.

But here's where the system is wrong making people who work full time worse off, surely? It's not your friends fault.

Yes that’s it. It’s education system, the teachers, the next door neighbours, the cat. Never the individual who should take responsibility. Never.

So if unemployed people are made to be so poor that they can't feed their children, does that make it okay that people who work can't make ends meet either?

Rather than a race to the bottom can we not accept that both sets of people are being treated badly and that's what should change. Not push benefit claimants so far in to poverty that the low paid working class feels better about their shitty lot.

It’s education system, the teachers, the next door neighbours, the cat. Never the individual who should take responsibility. Never

So it’s the individual’s responsibility that the system’s fucked up? Yeah, right.

But many people who claim UC already do work those hours! But the maximum hours you could probably work during term time, assuming no wraparound care, is probably about 28 hours a week. An employer is not under obligation to offer a part time worker more hours either and in fact may struggle to do so if their business has suffered due to covid. I don't know many people complaining about using wraparound care/holiday clubs or other childcare but the issue for many is availability. At my DC school the waiting list for wraparound care is about 2 years, and childminders are fully booked too. I'm lucky to live in an area where there is a choice of holiday clubs but in some areas they are sparse. And getting a job, particularly if you don't already have one or have recent experience, that offers flexible working/school hours can be extremely difficult.

True, I’m not disputing that. I know many people on UC who work during school hours. Wraparound care is a problem here too which is why I drastically reduced my hours.
Contrary to popular belief there are a number of jobs that can fit around school hours, eg being self employed like many cleaners, childminders, doing care work, taking on agency work as an HCA or care assistant, finding a job where you can work from home etc. One of my friends has a successful kids clothing business, another does web design from home, another is a dog walker, one a part time interpreter.

@Tealightsandd

Then you have those that just don't want to work and will gladly sit back and be payed for doing nothing or say its not worth going to work.

Would you want someone like that (someone who doesn't want to work and wants to sit around doing nothing) as a colleague or employee? Would you want to be their customer or client?

Anyone who actually wants to sit around all day every day year after year has problems. Mental health or difficult/bad life experiences or whatever it is.

It would be better if we offered social services and mental health support, education and training opportunities, encouragement, and positivity, and accepted that a very small minority of people are perhaps unemployable. Give that minority a subsidence payment and then focus on the majority.

Meanwhile the majority of benefit recipients either want to work, are already in work but many jobs are low paid (including lots of essential ones, like social care and cleaning), or are too disabled or ill to work.

You win the prize today for the most peculiar and convoluted attempt at ‘whataboutery’.

@Itsnotover

Anyone who actually wants to sit around all day every day year after year has problems. Mental health or difficult/bad life experiences or whatever it is.

I agree. These threads are always full of people talking about people like this but I've personally never met even one.

Yet every person saying this has met someone like this. So what’s your point?

Iggly, no I would not want children to suffer due to their parents’ choices and I’m sorry for your childhood experiences. But equally it’s examples like this that make people angry about the whole system: why do parents get to abdicate responsibility towards their children to the extent that there is only flour and water in the house? I can’t speak to your particular experiences and I don’t know what mitigating factors your parents were dealing with. But there are currently kids in your position now, and without invoking Mumsnet Benefit Bingo, where is the money going that there is literally nothing in a household that a child can eat? And is there any responsibility or action that a parent can take to rectify it without blaming somebody else for the situation?

But some people are never going to be able to earn more than minimum wage and that isn't their fault. If everyone was a HR tax payer, who would do these jobs anyway?

Students have traditionally done a lot of these minimum wage jobs to support themselves through college and university. I worked as a cleaner, agency HCA, shop assistant, hairdresser’s assistant etc while studying, fitting jobs around my uni hours. Most jobs do have progression available if you want it, eg care assistants, therapy assistants (can take NVQs to progress up the banding). Many assistants go on to train for the role of the person they’re assisting eg TAs often become teachers, physio assistants often train to be physios, many hair dressers start off as assistants. Retail offers pay progression. Nursery nurses may become room managers and assistant managers. Minimum wage jobs don’t mean you’ll be stuck there forever, often it’s a launching pad. Sure some people will stay on minimum wage but many don’t.

@sst1234

My point is that these people are rare, if they exist at all.

When people say they've met someone like this, usually they are filling in the gaps, assuming they know everything about their lives when they can't possibly.