New NI tax. How are people meant to afford this?

[OnTheBrink1]

We bought our house just before covid, got a mortgage that pushed us quite a bit but worked it all out and it’s been doable since then. We needed to push the mortgage quite a bit because we were upsizing to get an extra bedroom for the kids and a downstairs loo and in our area and from what we had before it was a jump.
Been managing since then but no progression opportunities in DH job during the last 18 months due to covid it seems as recruitment was largely paused.
However, now we will now have to pay an extra almost £900 per year on this new tax. £73 I make it.
We don’t have any benefits of any kind.
It’s going to be quite a struggle to afford the mortgage and still maintain the car (which is old but we need for work and kids stuff) plus all the usual bills and food. Kids are between 8-12 and need bus passes, constant uniform and all manner of expenses of course.
I mean we will struggle by but it’s going to be tough to afford that extra £73 a month when we had all the mortgage planned.
Just don’t get how they can bring it in so soon when it’s such an increase. How are others in a more difficult position going to afford this? People will be loosing their houses surely?

@FanGirlFoof

Morrisons expects price hikes amid supply chain and HGV driver crisis mol.im/a/9972937

Just saw this on Facebook. We are definitely in for some belt tightening over the next year.

Indeed. And the government is refusing visas to EU lorry drivers who could come and relieve the situation. Funny how shy all those 2019 Tory voters have suddenly become.

@Islamorada

Worst bit is that more taxes may come our way. All those Covid jabs and now boosters, furlough, lockdowns, out of control borders. Hopefully people would stop calling for more welfare benefits and uncontrolled immigration because these expenses all come from our taxes.

The system make it very hard for workers to make decent money and save. It is very expensive and most things are a rip off as well. Salaries are low.

So what you are basically saying is, all those you deem sub-human i.e. people who are clinically vulnerable - elderly people (having had jabs), anyone who is unemployed (furloughed), anyone who gets Covid and has had to self-isolate and do the right thing, but has lost income as a result (plenty of people self employed and on zero contracts)...

Children (who don't do paid work)
Anyone who has to visit a food bank and will be struggling to pay for food when U.C. uplft ends....

Any refugees who have the audacity to flee a war torn country where they and their daughters are in danger of being raped, killed etc...
and when they get here, would dearly love to work and contribute but can't because they are not allowed to...

Where have we heard all that before...?

Perhaps if you lose your job or become ill or in any way vulnerable you might consider the following Niemoeller quote:

...First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

" Blossomtoes Thu 09-Sep-21 14:01:21

given 40% of their homes goes to the state when they die anyway

Again untrue. A home owner’s estate is taxed only on anything above £500k. That’s £1 million for a couple which is why only only 5% of estates attract it."

I agree hardly anyone pays IHT. However if you have been forced to move from NE England to London for work as I was most of the equity in a house is taxed at 40% (the balance over 500,000 for we single ones so our children are rendered homeless whereas the same house in NE England would not result in my children being homeless). IHT is a wicked unfair and harsh tax to add to all the other tax that is around. For someone who is above 90 like 5 of my immediate neighbours and bought their house in about 1975 or earlier the £500k is not the bulk of the equity in their house, never mind any savings so most of their estate is indeed taxed at 40% on death.

@vivainsomnia

I think most people try to get the most they can afford if upsizing? No, most don't. Many factor in an emergency fund that would take I to account many circumstances. Poor health being one of them. One person losing their job, having to reduce hours to care for a relative.

You seem to want a number of luxuries as part of your normal life but not deemed them so. Having a toilet downstairs, a room for each child are luxuries.

You can afford the extra tax, you just don't want to cut into any of the luxuries you now take for granted. That's the same for the vast majority of people. You are no different.

No. It isn’t that at all. What I am saying is that these things were bought before covid. Yes we have a small contingency but this was largely used up during covid as my husbands wage was cut for 8 months. We don’t have loads of luxuries and the kids still don’t have a room each! Most houses anything bigger than a tiny starter home here have a downstairs loo

2 earners on 50k each are not earning massive amounts.

Is this a joke? Two earners on 50k each can easily afford this tax. In fact they should be paying more if anything!

[quote BasicDad]@MatildaIThink I don't think you are bitter. You did say you thought the system was too generous though.

How would you have rolled out an almost overnight blanket policy to protect as many people as possible?[/quote]
I agree the initial deployment was always going to be flawed, speed trumped perfection, it had to, but on later rounds we should have learned by that stage.

For starters I would have fixed the obvious exclusions, new starters, the issues for those returning form maternity etc. but the government did sort of rectify those in the end. My husband was not eligible (employed through is own Ltd, paid mostly via dividend), despite getting nothing I totally understand the reasons for not covering dividend and as he said, he accepts the rough with the smooth, it is part of being self-employed or running your own business.

For CJRS the main issues with paying out were that it allowed companies to claim for holiday as well, we knew this would have been a problem, other countries schemes which were introduced before ours was even announced accounted for this, so it was a mistake that ours did not. There also needed to be some looking at the actual scheme, quite a few companies claimed when their claims were in breach, most will probably get away with it, yet many seemed up in arms when the supermarkets claimed, which were entirely legitimate to put shielding staff on CJRS. It also seems quite a few small businesses claimed whilst staff kept working for the business. With SEISS many people were still claiming whilst working pretty much full time, minor impacts at most, but still getting the payouts which meant their income vastly outstripped their previous years earnings (eg. 5-10% down, but getting 60-80% of a quarter's profit top up) so potentially 50-70% up. SEISS especially there should have been some kind of claw back. Looking at how the German Kurzarbeitergeld system operates would have been a good idea, if you get the chance have a read up on it, but it might actually be something worth keeping in the UK longer term, Germany has had it for over 100 years, but scaled it up for Covid.

And the government is refusing visas to EU lorry drivers who could come and relieve the situation.

Oh good lord - why?!

@lllllllllll

And the government is refusing visas to EU lorry drivers who could come and relieve the situation.

Oh good lord - why?!

Because that would be an admission that immigrants are needed even if they are not super highly educated.. Not exactly on par with the Brexit message many were passing on

I agree hardly anyone pays IHT. However if you have been forced to move from NE England to London for work as I was most of the equity in a house is taxed at 40% (the balance over 500,000 for we single ones so our children are rendered homeless whereas the same house in NE England would not result in my children being homeless).

Why would your children be homeless if they inherit half a million, plus 60% of the rest?

Because that would be an admission that immigrants are needed even if they are not super highly educated.

That doesn't make sense though - there can't be anyone who would object to HGV drivers coming into this country for as long as they are needed to help solve the supply issues.

@lllllllllll

Because that would be an admission that immigrants are needed even if they are not super highly educated.

That doesn't make sense though - there can't be anyone who would object to HGV drivers coming into this country for as long as they are needed to help solve the supply issues.

But there are. Same with care workers and all other understaffed roles migrants used to take. People claim "they're taking our jobs" no they aren't, they're plugging a skills gap. But some people are incapable of seeing that. I know people that are incapable of seeing it.

There are about 600,000 people holding LGV cat C (rigid truck) or cat C+E (articulated lorry) licences in the UK who do not currently drive trucks for a living. Why would they want to return to the job? Facilities are poor, the hours brutal and the responsibilities onerous.

If this stat from the Guardian is correct though, we have a lot of people qualified to drive lorries already in the UK. What can we do to tempt them back?

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/06/hgv-driver-shortage-was-inevitable

@lllllllllll

Because that would be an admission that immigrants are needed even if they are not super highly educated.

That doesn't make sense though - there can't be anyone who would object to HGV drivers coming into this country for as long as they are needed to help solve the supply issues.

There are people who object to immigrants coming full stop no matter what.

@zenthoughtsonlythanks

Overnight we appear to have turned into a one party nation.

I don't any of us should feel comfortable with the dire state of politics in this country and what this means for our future. The very fact Boris had no qualms in overturning his manifesto, his own party policies and shove most of his future voters under a bus is quite alarming to say the least, and he expects to get away with it I assume after all where is the opposition - totally vacant.

The only thing this policy has done is bring the country together to unite against it.

Which voters has he shoved under a bus? And how?

[quote lllllllllll]There are about 600,000 people holding LGV cat C (rigid truck) or cat C+E (articulated lorry) licences in the UK who do not currently drive trucks for a living. Why would they want to return to the job? Facilities are poor, the hours brutal and the responsibilities onerous.

If this stat from the Guardian is correct though, we have a lot of people qualified to drive lorries already in the UK. What can we do to tempt them back?

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/06/hgv-driver-shortage-was-inevitable[/quote]
Facilities are poor, the hours brutal and the responsibilities onerous.

Improve this. Which companies won't, because it's not cost effective and our already sky-rocketing supermarket prices would go up even more.

Plus not all hgv licensed drivers used to work as drivers- lots have them for leisure purposes (my BIL for example) or as part of a job which isn't solely being a hgv driver (my other BiL).

The very fact Boris had no qualms in overturning his manifesto

I'm no Tory, but to be completely fair, nobody could have seen this sodding pandemic coming. It was inevitable that we would have to pay for it somehow - but I agree the way he's gone about it is wrong. It should be higher earners paying more, not those on low incomes who are already struggling.

Which companies won't, because it's not cost effective and our already sky-rocketing supermarket prices would go up even more.

Well surely they're going to have to!

@Xenia

" Blossomtoes Thu 09-Sep-21 14:01:21

given 40% of their homes goes to the state when they die anyway

Again untrue. A home owner’s estate is taxed only on anything above £500k. That’s £1 million for a couple which is why only only 5% of estates attract it."

I agree hardly anyone pays IHT. However if you have been forced to move from NE England to London for work as I was most of the equity in a house is taxed at 40% (the balance over 500,000 for we single ones so our children are rendered homeless whereas the same house in NE England would not result in my children being homeless). IHT is a wicked unfair and harsh tax to add to all the other tax that is around. For someone who is above 90 like 5 of my immediate neighbours and bought their house in about 1975 or earlier the £500k is not the bulk of the equity in their house, never mind any savings so most of their estate is indeed taxed at 40% on death.

Frankly @Xenia, tough shit. Your four adult children will each receive a £125k tax free inheritance as well as 60% of anything over and above that. They won’t be on the streets. The same applies to your wealthy neighbours’ legatees. The equity in their houses is unearned and, to date, untaxed. Forgive me if I can’t summon an atom of sympathy.

@lllllllllll

Which companies won't, because it's not cost effective and our already sky-rocketing supermarket prices would go up even more.

Well surely they're going to have to!

I'd personally prefer we get immigration back AND improve conditions, but I'm a dreamer!

The reason they want EU drivers is because they are used as cheap labour which is not a good thing. I did laugh at the pearl clutching in the papers about some lorry drivers earning more than lawyers.

@portico

Well, I will make sure fellow voters and myself will give a drubbing to the local Tory MP in our marginal constituency. Sadly, Labour to do well. Still more taxes.

A rise in NI is the main starter in an expensive meal out. The main meal will be paying for the cost of pandemic. Pudding will be paying for housing and maintaining refugees fleeing their home countries - with more knock on impacts to state services.

Regardless of what party your constituency votes for, do you think this tax will be removed? Or that others won't be imposed? Do you think the NHS, social care and the associated costs of the pandemic don't need to be paid for? If taxes aren't raised, how will that happen? Who dud you think was going to pay for the pandemic. A handful of miilionaires and everyone else just to carry on as usual?

there can't be anyone who would object to HGV drivers coming into this country for as long as they are needed to help solve the supply issues.

Trade Union, Unite, which protects worker rights, equality and diversity in the workplace is urging the UK government not to issue European lorry drivers with temporary UK visas to plug chronic HGV driver shortages. Instead, the union has urged the logistics industry to increase driver pay rates to solve the crisis, according to a MotorTransport report.

The union, which represents thousands of lorry drivers said: “The solution lies in the hands of the logistics industry.”

The union has called on operators to ‘eliminate low pay rates and tackle poor working conditions and inferior welfare facilities’.

workpermit.com/news/no-temporary-uk-visas-eu-lorry-drivers-urges-unite-20210709

No. It isn’t that at all. What I am saying is that these things were bought before covid
So how are you worse off than before Covid now? If you factored in unexpected expenses in your budget then, why is it such an issue now?

Anyway. From what I heard the EU drivers aren't that keen to come here anyway.

[quote Clavinova]there can't be anyone who would object to HGV drivers coming into this country for as long as they are needed to help solve the supply issues.

Trade Union, Unite, which protects worker rights, equality and diversity in the workplace is urging the UK government not to issue European lorry drivers with temporary UK visas to plug chronic HGV driver shortages. Instead, the union has urged the logistics industry to increase driver pay rates to solve the crisis, according to a MotorTransport report.

The union, which represents thousands of lorry drivers said: “The solution lies in the hands of the logistics industry.”

The union has called on operators to ‘eliminate low pay rates and tackle poor working conditions and inferior welfare facilities’.

workpermit.com/news/no-temporary-uk-visas-eu-lorry-drivers-urges-unite-20210709[/quote]
Odd isn't it - the pundits said that cheap EU workers were not forcing or keeping pay down, but now they're gone apparently we'll need to pay proper wages......