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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

New NI tax. How are people meant to afford this?

540 replies

OnTheBrink1 · 08/09/2021 18:51

We bought our house just before covid, got a mortgage that pushed us quite a bit but worked it all out and it’s been doable since then. We needed to push the mortgage quite a bit because we were upsizing to get an extra bedroom for the kids and a downstairs loo and in our area and from what we had before it was a jump.
Been managing since then but no progression opportunities in DH job during the last 18 months due to covid it seems as recruitment was largely paused.
However, now we will now have to pay an extra almost £900 per year on this new tax. £73 I make it.
We don’t have any benefits of any kind.
It’s going to be quite a struggle to afford the mortgage and still maintain the car (which is old but we need for work and kids stuff) plus all the usual bills and food. Kids are between 8-12 and need bus passes, constant uniform and all manner of expenses of course.
I mean we will struggle by but it’s going to be tough to afford that extra £73 a month when we had all the mortgage planned.
Just don’t get how they can bring it in so soon when it’s such an increase. How are others in a more difficult position going to afford this? People will be loosing their houses surely?

OP posts:
Nightlystroll · 09/09/2021 16:03

"Odd isn't it - the pundits said that cheap EU workers were not forcing or keeping pay down, but now they're gone apparently we'll need to pay proper wages......"

A benefit of Brexit maybe?

Bucanarab · 09/09/2021 16:14

Until the next crisis, and then you hit them again? How many times should they be deemed sole saviours of the whole nation, to support a society need they will never use, before they have enough to be hold the fort for all, with little appreciation back, and decide to go somewhere else?

@vivainsomnia

How many times? As many times as it takes until we don't have a situation where 1% of the country have almost a quarter of the total wealth, or if you want to take it a but further where 10% have more than the remaining 90%. It boggles my mind that you would think this is a fair or desirable outcome for any society.

It's also strange that you think because they may not use the service themselves they should be exempt from supporting it. The majority of the 1% are only rich because they live in a functioning and developed society. They'll have built their wealth on the backs of the average worker, either indirectly or directly, and they should not be allowed to exploit it to the level they have. How well do you think a stock broker or factory owner would do without an educated, healthy, and secure society to call upon?

Tbh I do quite admire how the rich have managed to manipulate the masses into accepting this situation, its amazing what tiny bit of hope in a rigged system will do.

Society is currently like a pyramid, with a broad foundation and a narrow top. We're fed the lie that if we just work hard enough we can all rise to the top. But an inverted pyramid will fail and so for our society to work the majority need to be kept from rising too high. Our goal should not be to rise as individuals to the top, but to reduce the distance between the base and the tip and turn the pyramid into a trapezoid imo. Reduce inequality in wealth and you'll reduce inequalities everywhere else.

ilovecardigans · 09/09/2021 16:17

My husband is one of the 600,000 experienced, qualified lorry drivers who packed it in 2 years ago at the age of 48. Several of his former colleagues have done likewise. In his experience, most haulage companies are run by greedy bastards at the top who pay relatively shit wages; expect their drivers to pay for their own medicals etc.; put in fierce hours; work most weekends and bank holidays with no extra pay; don't pay enough night out money to cover the cost of parking up in secure lorry parks; pay zero sick pay; and expect drivers to do their CPC hours in their own time. Add to that the fact that drivers are treated like shit by retail distribution centres and other road users. His mental health was hanging by a thread when he quit.

He's now earning a better hourly wage driving a wee Argos delivery van and in a much better place mentally. We laugh at the alleged fantastic wages on offer for lorry drivers. If he were to go back to his old job, he'd be earning about 50p an hour more than he's getting now.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 09/09/2021 16:24

@ilovecardigans good on him! And really not just for the better wage.

ilovecardigans · 09/09/2021 16:36

Thanks @Annoyedanddissapointed

His (and our) quality of life is so much better now. Even if the wages were significantly better (which they're not) he wouldn't go back. Out of curiosity I just idly Googled HGV vacancies in our area (north east) and the first one that I clicked on was offering £10.65 - £11.68 per hour. Bahahahaha!! Fuck off Fowler Welch.

Annoyedanddissapointed · 09/09/2021 16:41

I checked around mine and it seems to be set between 15-19 an hour👀

@ilovecardigans yeah. My friend's DP is a driver on mainland and it's tough with the time away

DynamoKev · 09/09/2021 16:43

@ilovecardigans

My husband is one of the 600,000 experienced, qualified lorry drivers who packed it in 2 years ago at the age of 48. Several of his former colleagues have done likewise. In his experience, most haulage companies are run by greedy bastards at the top who pay relatively shit wages; expect their drivers to pay for their own medicals etc.; put in fierce hours; work most weekends and bank holidays with no extra pay; don't pay enough night out money to cover the cost of parking up in secure lorry parks; pay zero sick pay; and expect drivers to do their CPC hours in their own time. Add to that the fact that drivers are treated like shit by retail distribution centres and other road users. His mental health was hanging by a thread when he quit.

He's now earning a better hourly wage driving a wee Argos delivery van and in a much better place mentally. We laugh at the alleged fantastic wages on offer for lorry drivers. If he were to go back to his old job, he'd be earning about 50p an hour more than he's getting now.

I second this from the experience of people I know who have either given up or never started.

Also keep in mind that it's not just getting a licence to drive (at your own expense) - you have to keep the CPC up to date (at your expense).

Many of my friends (and one in particular) used to use LGV driving as a "stop gap" between other jobs. They could sign on and get a few weeks of agency work when needed.

CPC, recent IR35 changes and the utterly crap wages and conditions have put paid to that. It's no surprise that only people from Romania can afford to take these wages.

I suspect that despite it being theoretically banned, there has been and remains some (but much reduced) Cabotage taking place.

DynamoKev · 09/09/2021 16:44

I second this from the experience of people I know who have either given up or never started.

Sorry I meant to elaborate - I know several people who hold a full licence to drive all/any LGV but never used it as it's not attractive option.

DynamoKev · 09/09/2021 16:49

Tbh I do quite admire how the rich have managed to manipulate the masses into accepting this situation, its amazing what tiny bit of hope in a rigged system will do.

I often think about this - I expect it's partly a legacy of the industrial unrest of the 70s - whilst the Germans co-operated with each other (management and unions) to rebuild Germany after the war, by the 70s we had incompetent get-rich quick spivs in management and Trotskyite class warriors running Unions and it scared a lot of people.
Or maybe we never got over the Feudal system - we never had a proper revolution like the French!

ilovecardigans · 09/09/2021 17:06

@DynamoKev

Tbh I do quite admire how the rich have managed to manipulate the masses into accepting this situation, its amazing what tiny bit of hope in a rigged system will do.

I often think about this - I expect it's partly a legacy of the industrial unrest of the 70s - whilst the Germans co-operated with each other (management and unions) to rebuild Germany after the war, by the 70s we had incompetent get-rich quick spivs in management and Trotskyite class warriors running Unions and it scared a lot of people.
Or maybe we never got over the Feudal system - we never had a proper revolution like the French!

Ha! I think you may be right @DynamoKev Grin
PopcornMuncher · 09/09/2021 17:10

This reply has been deleted

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FanGirlFoof · 09/09/2021 17:18

Or maybe we never got over the Feudal system - we never had a proper revolution like the French!

I think you've hit the nail on the head 😀.

the80sweregreat · 09/09/2021 17:29

The 1970s had a lot to answer for really .
The unions were too powerful at one stage and Labour was seen as nothing but communists. It's so sad when they actually improved so much for the normal working person. All forgotten about when 'housewife ' Maggie Thatcher and her ' run it like you would your own home' came to be leader along with some really great advertising slogans. You have to hand to Conservative marketing and PR , they are so good at all that!
People voting Tory in the 80s often said ' don't vote Labour , we will end up like we were then ( meaning the 'bad old days 'of the 70s) so not much has altered on that score to be honest.
The LP had a turbulent past back then.

portico · 09/09/2021 17:31

@PopcornMuncher
All parties are the same. They are all centrist parties. We could do with right and left wing parties for differentiation. It won’t happen. I did actually like Corbyn’s policies. But his position on antisemitism is a no no, and I would not vote for a party that parades such bigotry.

Overdale · 09/09/2021 17:35

I think that this is going to be the first of many tax rises, more to come, they are going to rob pensioners of a promised 5.5% increase and thats for life

Peregrina · 09/09/2021 17:35

It seems that there were two votes last night. Without reading more I am not sure which is which - but I note that in the first ballot, only Tories voted against and I include Julian Lewis here, because Johnson withdrew the whip from him because he dared to disagree. All the Opposition voted yes, and this includes unlikely bedfellows like the DUP.
www.theyworkforyou.com/divisions/pw-2021-09-08-62-commons

The second vote was the reverse - the Tories voted yes, and all the opposition No, but here there were some interesting No votes Esther McVey and John Redwood for two.

So despite Johnson trying to make political capital out of Labour doesn't support the NHS, and if these threads are anything to go by, I suspect he won't get away with it.

Most of us know that the NHS is under pressure and that social care is a mess, but we have realised that Johnson's scheme is not the way to fix either.
www.theyworkforyou.com/divisions/pw-2021-09-08-63-commons

Conchita0792 · 09/09/2021 17:38

@OnTheBrink1

We bought our house just before covid, got a mortgage that pushed us quite a bit but worked it all out and it’s been doable since then. We needed to push the mortgage quite a bit because we were upsizing to get an extra bedroom for the kids and a downstairs loo and in our area and from what we had before it was a jump. Been managing since then but no progression opportunities in DH job during the last 18 months due to covid it seems as recruitment was largely paused. However, now we will now have to pay an extra almost £900 per year on this new tax. £73 I make it. We don’t have any benefits of any kind. It’s going to be quite a struggle to afford the mortgage and still maintain the car (which is old but we need for work and kids stuff) plus all the usual bills and food. Kids are between 8-12 and need bus passes, constant uniform and all manner of expenses of course. I mean we will struggle by but it’s going to be tough to afford that extra £73 a month when we had all the mortgage planned. Just don’t get how they can bring it in so soon when it’s such an increase. How are others in a more difficult position going to afford this? People will be loosing their houses surely?
Yeah, your problem isn't an NI increase, your problem is that you believed that you can plan your mortgage. You've taken on a mortgage that you're already somewhat struggling with, what happens when interest rates go up? as they inevitably will What happens when one of you loses your jobs? which is happening to many, many people. With an NI increase of £73 a month, it suggests that you have a fairly healthy income and yet, you're struggling? You need a financial advisor if you're being this hard hit by £73 a month.
Peregrina · 09/09/2021 17:39

they are going to rob pensioners of a promised 5.5% increase and thats for life

For which the Opposition needs to make as much political capital as possible, because that is the bedrock of the Tory vote. (Written as a pensioner who has never voted for a Tory MP and cannot ever see myself doing so.)

I think a lot of us wouldn't mind as much if we saw the likes of Sunak, Rees-Mogg and Co tightening their belts but no, they will do nicely out of this.

Lindylindyloo · 09/09/2021 17:40

I agree. Graduated tax much fairer. But don’t forget it’s always been people in work who’ve paid for pensioners. The current pensioners did once too!

Peregrina · 09/09/2021 17:46

Current pensioners still pay tax if their income is sufficient. But we don't pay NIC on pensions.

Parker231 · 09/09/2021 17:46

Will be interesting to see which tax is selected for the next increase to properly fund the benefits system, social housing, education, emergency services etc. All need significant improvements costing £££££ let alone the tax increases to fund the Brexit disaster.

Peregrina · 09/09/2021 17:51

Will be interesting to see which tax is selected for the next increase to properly fund the benefits system, social housing, education, emergency services etc. Boris's chums.

the80sweregreat · 09/09/2021 17:52

@Parker231

Will be interesting to see which tax is selected for the next increase to properly fund the benefits system, social housing, education, emergency services etc. All need significant improvements costing £££££ let alone the tax increases to fund the Brexit disaster.
Yes, that will be a hard sell. This one has been easier as it's seen as ' for the old folk ' trying to sort out something that has been kicked into the long grass etc etc. Any extra for the above named will send people over the edge. Much harder to convince people that is needed.
NoMoreBananas · 09/09/2021 17:54

We are on Universal Credit due to circumstances completely out of our control, so we are going to be losing around £80 a month. I honestly, truly, don't know what we will do

ilovecardigans · 09/09/2021 17:54

What about limiting tax relief on pension contributions for higher rate taxpayers? Or cap tax relief at 10% on all pension contributions?