To be pissed off at paying more tax evdn though it is 1.25 percent?

[Fancymice]

So I get paid 1430 a month, then
-76.40 income tax
-75. 96 national insurance
-36.40 pension

And then this new 1.25 percent health and social care levy will be by my calculation 17.88

Total deductions 206.63 so take home will be £1223

I know it's only £17, but It just feels like the cherry on top of a year of being financially pummelled. The price of everything is going through the roof, food, petrol, rent. A pay rise is out of the question "because of covid" and now I have to part with even more money for our shitty useless government to misnanage.

NHS has said it’s not enough.

If it's not enough then higher earners need to start paying more. What other alternative is there?

[quote NotPersephone]@DynamoKev if you think you know people who are “dodging” tax then report them. You don’t though, do you? My accountant advises how to lawfully minimize my liability on certain income, but the vast majority of our income is through PAYE and tax, NI etc is deducted at source.

I’m currently getting walloped with a 60% tax rate on a slice of my income because I earn above the level where I lose my personal allowance but below the threshold where 45% kicks in. I’m not suggesting I am anything other than fortunate to be in that tax bracket, but equally I think that we pay more than enough - especially given the parlous state of public services in the UK. And no I’m drinking the “it’s all the fault of the rich (aka everyone who earns slightly more than me should pay more)” Kool-Aid.[/quote]
I am talking about a perfectly legal dodge so no point in reporting it. If you are a director of your own limited co you can legally avoid paying any NI if you wish.

I haven't hit that 60% marginal rate this year (I've only paid about 20K in tax for the last tax year as I changed jobs and had some enforced downtime), but I have hit it in the past, so I am not throwing rocks "upwards" - the system is excessively complex and there are many legal loopholes. I never understand the moaning about marginal tax rates though - I am sure it's a "problem" lots of people would like to have, and it's not as if it applies to all income. I am not happy at how this government spends a lot of my cash, and I didn't vote for them, but in principle I'd gladly pay more (as much as another 5-10p on the higher rate to guarantee social care and a better NHS. This rise, however is a cynical rip-off of lower paid people and an extra burden on employers, whilst plenty of wealthy people will be able to dodge it altogether.

Totally agree...

Aa far as I can see, the NHS is a bottomless moneypit. I hear some CEO's are on 230k plus...

Radical overhaul time, £36billion going into won't make a slightest dent...

Interesting that they (Nhs) are already saying its not enough.

@NotPersephone

We pay over 38% tax on our dividends *@Blossomtoes* - hardly derisory. But certainly disingenuous to only mention the BR.

I mean it’s not as though investing in companies helps the economy or anything, right? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't see a 38% rate. Are you in Scotland?

I don't follow your point about "investing in companies" helping the economy.

If you buy shares on the Stock Exchange, not a penny of what you pay goes to the company.

Additional rate is 38.1% @PigletJohn. I assume your dividend income must be pretty high to attract that. It’s a problem a lot of people would be delighted to have.

@Blossomtoes

Additional rate is 38.1% *@PigletJohn*. I assume your dividend income must be pretty high to attract that. It’s a problem a lot of people would be delighted to have.

Your luck, or financial planning, would be unusual.

For example, as a humble non-billionaire, I can hold £100,000 of shares with a 2% yield, and pay no tax on the dividends because they fall within my dividend allowance. If I liked Growth shares with low yield I could have more.

I can hold most of the rest in my ISA and pay no tax on them because ISA income is tax free.

After a great deal of thought, I have decided it is much better to have lots of money, and pay some tax on it, than not.

@NotPersephone may disagree. I don't know.

After a great deal of thought, I have decided it is much better to have lots of money, and pay some tax on it, than not

I imagine most people would draw the same conclusion.

@NotPersephone

We pay over 38% tax on our dividends *@Blossomtoes* - hardly derisory. But certainly disingenuous to only mention the BR.

I mean it’s not as though investing in companies helps the economy or anything, right? 🤷🏻‍♀️

I can hardly bear the pain of my sympathy.

Oddly, the 38% you complain about is not so very different for the common person paying 20% tax plus 12.5% (soon to be 13.25%) NI on their top slice. Maybe we need more common people paying 32%.

From what you say, I imagine you're in the 2% NI band for your top slice.

Why stop when I'm having such fun?

The common people are paying 33% tax and NI.

Is that eye-watering?

Social care does not only apply to pensioners. There are people of working and school age who need care too! Pensioners are only one part of the equation. Plus the fact that working people may need care themselves when they get older as well so itspretty naive to consider it a generational matter.

The pips are squeaking

At the bottom, yes. There’s a very long way to go before they come close to squeaking at the top. I’m not being snarky @NotPersephone - yes, I know it makes a change - but how do you reconcile being brought up on a council estate with begrudging every penny of tax you pay, when you know how tough life is at the bottom? Why wouldn’t you want to use the good fortune life’s handed you to help make life better for the people who are still stuck where you came from?

At the moment most people don't pay their way - they need to bring much more value to the country, and pay much more tax. The issue isn't with those on 100k+, they are paying far more than their share. People didn't pay their fair share in the Victorian times - those who created wealth paid for everything, but maybe people also lived much more within their own means.

I kind of agree. Everyone seems to want everything for free nowadays, regardless of how little they pay into the system. From ear microsuctioning on the NHS to instant access to consultants and minor surgery, free dental care, an NHS and social care system that’s fully staffed and entirely free to use. High quality services don’t just fall into our laps.

Where’s the inspiration to work, progress, increase your skill set, strive for promotions, inspire your kids to study hard and go to university, if everything is provided by others?

(The more you earn the more tax and NI you have to pay for all the people who don’t earn much or don’t earn at all). I’m not talking about people who CAN’T work due to illness or sudden change in life circumstances, but people who choose not to work full time and climb the career ladder, or waste money on holidays and luxury items, or amass huge credit card debts due to excessive shopping or lack of knowledge about finances. Or who make unwise life decisions repeatedly like having several kids very young before they’ve established a way to support them. Or smoking and drinking heavily, not eating healthily, not exercising, putting unnecessary strain on public services. Of course people will turn to private healthcare (if they can) when the NHS becomes dysfunctional.

Is it any wonder so many high earners move abroad so they can actually keep a higher percentage of their earnings?

I think we need better discipline and work ethic in schools, career advice that’s targeted and meaningful to help people find secure paid employment with the means to progress and save. And of course more available housing but who is going to pay for the land, for the homes to be built?

I'm fed-up with posters on this forum moaning that the NHS is underfunded, then moaning that they're being asked to put some more funds towards it. If you want a decent public health service, you have to pay for it, end of

Why do you think so many staff are leaving the NHS? It’s not purely a funding issue. Pouring more money into a broken system won’t ‘fix’ it.

Why should only a minority of the population contribute towards the NHS and social care? Ironically most of the people keeping it going are those who can afford private healthcare!

Why should only a minority of the population contribute towards the NHS and social care?

It’s not a minority, it a higher percentage than voted for Brexit for context. If you want the number of tax payers to rise, you have to pay wages at the level that makes people eligible to pay it.

Why should only a minority of the population contribute towards the NHS and social care?

The people who pay the highest rates are those who are employed, and earn from £12,571 to £50,270 a year.

They currently pay 12% NI (shortly rising to 13.25%) on top of 20% income tax.

For the purpose of this conversation I will call them the common people.

Uncommon people on higher earnings currently pay only 2% NI on earnings above upper earnings limit

Some of them claim to think they are being asked to pay too much.

People who are not employed pay zero NI. No matter how rich they are or how high their income. It's almost as if the government wants to give the rich an easy ride when it comes to contributing to the nation.

Where’s the inspiration to work, progress, increase your skill set, strive for promotions, inspire your kids to study hard and go to university, if everything is provided by others?

You say that, but someone will always need to do the minimum wage jobs. We can't all be professionals, executives and so on - someone still needs to empty the bins, stack the shelves, clean the roads etc.

The government was able to give out £18 billion worth of PPE contracts to their mates. Social Care could be paid for out of existing tax arrangements, it's just that it would require less corruption and less lucrative contracts for Tory donors.

@CaptainMarvelous

The government was able to give out £18 billion worth of PPE contracts to their mates. Social Care could be paid for out of existing tax arrangements, it's just that it would require less corruption and less lucrative contracts for Tory donors.

And there was Dido Harding’s Track and Trace £37 million.

@StrangeToSee

Where’s the inspiration to work, progress, increase your skill set, strive for promotions, inspire your kids to study hard and go to university, if everything is provided by others?

Since "everything" isn't "provided by others" this is not a serious question.

@ Blossomtoes there’s no such thing as track and trace. It’s test and trace, which does about 1 million pcr tests a day, plus provides millions of lateral flow tests each day. The contract tracing hasn’t been great, but way too many people give false information for it to work anyway.

@Paquerette

@ Blossomtoes there’s no such thing as track and trace. It’s test and trace, which does about 1 million pcr tests a day, plus provides millions of lateral flow tests each day. The contract tracing hasn’t been great, but way too many people give false information for it to work anyway.

It still put £37 million of our money in Dido Harding’s pocket.