To be pissed off at paying more tax evdn though it is 1.25 percent?

[Fancymice]

So I get paid 1430 a month, then
-76.40 income tax
-75. 96 national insurance
-36.40 pension

And then this new 1.25 percent health and social care levy will be by my calculation 17.88

Total deductions 206.63 so take home will be £1223

I know it's only £17, but It just feels like the cherry on top of a year of being financially pummelled. The price of everything is going through the roof, food, petrol, rent. A pay rise is out of the question "because of covid" and now I have to part with even more money for our shitty useless government to misnanage.

@Iggly

He took all the risk and the employees chose to give their time - so as I say, it was their choice. Maybe they just aren't very skilled or able to do anything else? If there is limited available labour, he would have had to pay more. The idea is the most valuable thing, the packers add nothing special - and as soon as possible with be changed to robots if possible.

On the other hand maybe people are happy to do the job - I loved this type of job when I was young. If nobody is willing to do the job, then either the business finds an alternative approach, pay more or goes bust.

I've always haggled and never had a problem getting what I want - I just refuse otherwise. Of course, I have to be realistic, its a bargain - completely voluntary exchange of time/effort/knowledge/skill for cash.

If its the only job they could get, then maybe they need to consider why? Nobody owes anyone a living, people's time is worth what someone will pay for it.

@MasterBeth

That's just not true. Wealth can be generated. People were paid what they were worth (by definition, they decided to do it rather than someone paying more) and customers were willing to pay more for the concept and risk combined because of the added value it offered them.

Straw man! Nobody said everyone could do the same - they just didn't need to work for Amazon, but could have done something else.

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[quote chipsandwine76]@Iggly

He took all the risk and the employees chose to give their time - so as I say, it was their choice. Maybe they just aren't very skilled or able to do anything else? If there is limited available labour, he would have had to pay more. The idea is the most valuable thing, the packers add nothing special - and as soon as possible with be changed to robots if possible.

On the other hand maybe people are happy to do the job - I loved this type of job when I was young. If nobody is willing to do the job, then either the business finds an alternative approach, pay more or goes bust.

I've always haggled and never had a problem getting what I want - I just refuse otherwise. Of course, I have to be realistic, its a bargain - completely voluntary exchange of time/effort/knowledge/skill for cash.

If its the only job they could get, then maybe they need to consider why? Nobody owes anyone a living, people's time is worth what someone will pay for it.[/quote]
What risk did he take? He borrowed money from family and friends as I understand. He used to work for an investment bank.

As I say and will say again - without his employees he would have had nothing. To not acknowledge their contribution is pretty poor really and to think that they shouldn’t get better pay, well it says a lot about you.

If your business model means that the boss takes excessive gains and pays workers shit and treats them like shit, then it’s a rubbish business model.

He was able to exploit the current system which encourages low paid labour leaving employees with very little choice for well paid jobs.

If its the only job they could get, then maybe they need to consider why? Nobody owes anyone a living, people's time is worth what someone will pay for it

That system only applies where employees have equal power to employers.

Which is simply not the case.

We are paying £100 a month extra which is equivalent of our weekly food shop but I do think we all need to pay a share so I accept it.

Did you all honestly think that we wouldn't have to pay all the costs covid has brought back?????

I consider us getting off lightly

@Biker47

I personally think the £100k+ a year earners need to pay alot more tax

I don't earn £100k, but on what I do earn I pay close to ten times more income tax than someone on full time national minimum wage, and over five times more in national insurance contributions, so if someone is on £100k, I think they're probably already paying their "fair share" for a functioning society. They don't get 10x of the facilities everyone else gets, and they won't be getting 5x better old age care at the end of their NI payments.

Didn’t Sam Seabourn say something similar?

Right, so he risked being bankrupt if it all went wrong.

Agreed, without some employees he would have had nothing. But he risked paying them for their services. And if those employees weren't available another set would have been if he's paying the right amount - the employees were paid fairly (they can always leave - and often do).

The boss didn't take excessive gains - he took the profit or the loss as agreed by his investors - there is nothing excessive. Anyone who wanted to take part in this just had to use their wages to buy shares (and take the risk).

Well paid jobs for skilled and knowledgeable people are easily available. There is a huge demand for skilled people, and wages are rising 20-50% this year in some roles being recruited (there are huge shortages). At the moment labour has the upper hand, but definitely not if you have little to offer - but that's completely down to the individual.

I don't earn £100k, but on what I do earn I pay close to ten times more income tax than someone on full time national minimum wage, and over five times more in national insurance contributions, so if someone is on £100k, I think they're probably already paying their "fair share" for a functioning society. They don't get 10x of the facilities everyone else gets, and they won't be getting 5x better old age care at the end of their NI payments

First of all, and it’s a tax 101 lesson you get when training to be an accountant, lower paid people pay more tax as a proportion of their earnings. Not just income tax but other taxes - which all end up in the same pot.

Second of all, we all pay into the pot to provide cover for everyone. It’s not like shopping at Aldi vs Waitrose. We are paying for a decent public sector and a stable society.

@chipsandwine76

Right, so he risked being bankrupt if it all went wrong.

Agreed, without some employees he would have had nothing. But he risked paying them for their services. And if those employees weren't available another set would have been if he's paying the right amount - the employees were paid fairly (they can always leave - and often do).

The boss didn't take excessive gains - he took the profit or the loss as agreed by his investors - there is nothing excessive. Anyone who wanted to take part in this just had to use their wages to buy shares (and take the risk).

Well paid jobs for skilled and knowledgeable people are easily available. There is a huge demand for skilled people, and wages are rising 20-50% this year in some roles being recruited (there are huge shortages). At the moment labour has the upper hand, but definitely not if you have little to offer - but that's completely down to the individual.

How did he risk being bankrupt? A former investment banker with money from family and friends

And yes the gains were excessive. He’s a billionaire with thousands of millions of pounds whereas Amazon workers can’t even take a piss without fearing for their jobs. So, sorry, he could - or his investors could - have ensured that everyone’s contribution was spread a little bit more equitably.

All jobs require an element of skill - some just pay more than others.

So, you can pretend all you like that Jeff Bezos is some sort of messiah who’s earned all of that money all by himself. Good luck to you.

And I will add - that the amount of money in the system is not infinite.

So having billionaire will skew things so that there is less for everyone else. Unless you think there’s an infinite supply of money.

The difference between rich and poor matters and it’s only getting worse.

To have a decent functioning economy, people need to be paid enough to live and spend. No good suppressing wages and only having a handful of people who can actually stimulate growth.

Wow after reading some of these comments relating to "lower paid people" and "they take more than they give"

I mean, might as well return to the workhouses system, at least then you know, you'd get some value from the poor people, and they would die younger from horrific conditions so that would be a bonus too wouldn't it 🙄

"Are there no workhouses for the poor..."

Of course... the answer to greater prosperity is communism... why didn't I think of that.

Exactly! Can we be friends?

Jeff took risks and if you have a great idea and find backers you can take the risk too. Also, plenty of people can be given money by their parents and blow it in drugs or silly stuff. Of course he should get taxed properly and that is up to the governments. I am not envious of Jeff wealth and thank god for Amazon during Covid.

We need to become realistic that too many people who contribute little are expecting too much - the lower paid need to pay much more tax. People should get access to better services as they contribute more, not less

Thank God our society is more civilised than that. Clearly the 19th century is calling some people.

Jeff took risks and if you have a great idea and find backers you can take the risk too

Yep. And I would pay my employers a decent wage. He could certainly have afforded to.

And that’s my point. He chose not to and encouraged a terrible culture of exploiting people. He’s made huge profits during Amazon, delivery drivers and warehouse staff have worked throughout covid but I bet they still got shit wages.

I have friends and family who work for Amazon and they are very happy and grateful. Where they live there are not many other jobs.

Thank God our society is more civilised than that. Clearly the 19th century is calling some people.

Why do they want to go back to that?

@Islamorada

I have friends and family who work for Amazon and they are very happy and grateful. Where they live there are not many other jobs.

The issue I have is that a billionaire leaves less for everyone else….

@longue

Thank God our society is more civilised than that. Clearly the 19th century is calling some people.

Why do they want to go back to that?

No idea. Ask @chipsandwine76 why they think it’s so appealing.

@chipsandwine76 any insights?

Not my suggestion... don't know. Didn't know time travel is possible, how does it work?

@chipsandwine76

Not my suggestion... don't know. Didn't know time travel is possible, how does it work?

It was actually. You said

We need to become realistic that too many people who contribute little are expecting too much - the lower paid need to pay much more tax. People should get access to better services as they contribute more, not less

Positively Victorian.

@Iggly

Why don't you put your ideas into practice?

You could setup an online shop, and pay your staff more. Of course, you'd have to compete with others, so either you take less profit (which is fine as you suggest) or find people who will pay more for your services.

It's up to you - you can do this. And as you set the higher wage Jeff won't find any employees and he will also have to pay more.

And BTW, there is not a finite amount of money in a fiat system - but of course the current amount of money being controlled gives money its value.

Rich people make a country wealthy - they don't prevent others making more money. In general, we need to encourage billionaires to want to be in the UK - at present people like you make us all poorer by being hostile to them.

Rich people make a country wealthy - they don't prevent others making more money. In general, we need to encourage billionaires to want to be in the UK - at present people like you make us all poorer by being hostile to them.

😆😆

Well apparently we gained 24 more billionaires in the UK over the last yr. So by your logic we should be rolling in it now not facing tax hikes & pay freezes.