To think schools just won’t be able to stay open in the medium term

[Schoolgrand]

In the medium term we are having thousands of people mixing from different households at a time of high community transmission and now we are hearing reports of an October lockdown. Aibu to think schools in their current form with no mitigation’s just can’t stay open in the medium term.

@Confiscatedpopit

Christ, we really do need to move on. Enough now, children have sacrificed enough. You only get 18 years of being a child, all of us had ours, stop imposing this never ending shit on them!

Excellent point

[quote MyDcAreMarvel]**@FfrothiCoffi* yes a few weeks, less than 5% of their entire in person* school education to save thousands of lives. It’s not really a huge sacrifice to make.[/quote]
How are you getting that number? You have to be assuming that after this year, their in-person education continues uninterrupted. Do you believe that should be what happens even if (when) covid fails to disappear next year? If not, you have no idea what percentage of their education will end up sacrificed at the altar of "protecting" people who (or whose parents) can't be arsed to make any sacrifices to protect themselves.

Case in point, from earlier in this thread:

My child is put at risk every single day by parents who continue to send children into school with covid symptoms and without having been tested because they can't be bothered with the inconvenience.

We're meant to believe this CV child's risk has nothing whatsoever to do with his own mother's insistence that he absolutely must be in in-person education despite the known dangers to him. Nope, when the obvious happens, it will be 100% everyone else's fault. All of those selfish people who didn't want to homeschool or arrange other childcare because it was "inconvenient." Never mind that doing those things herself would have protected her CV child much more effectively. Funny how not doing something obvious because of "inconvenience" is only a good enough reason when it's one's own inconvenience. Also funny how other people have a moral obligation to upend their lives as much as is necessary to protect her child. She, apparently, has no similar moral obligation to protect her own child.

It really should go without saying that protecting CV children is first and foremost the responsibility of their own parents. If any parents are missing work, etc., for the sake of protecting such children, it should be those children's own parents. This bizarre belief that the rest of the world owes it to them to do their job for them - combined with the even more bizarre belief that the rest of the world will happily comply and do that job perfectly - is likely to get some of their children killed.

Well said.

Also schools only closed last time because the government had no choice due to the teaching unions have everyone hand that letter in re safety. Why? Because teachers weren't vaccinated. That was the major talking point, how teachers should be one of the first vaccinated groups. I don't see why it's now changed and people are acting like them being vaccinated doesn't matter? People complain about the government constantly changing the goalposts. But the people complaining, the people who seemingly hope beyond hope that education is disrupted, also constantly move the goal posts regarding why it's unsafe. We're in a ridiculously better position than last year due to vaccines alone. People are convinced they've almost worn off and are using this as an excuse. And once the most vulnerable are given boosters they'll find yet another excuse why kids are the devil in all this and must be kept away from school. There is no pleasing some people. My neice in Australia is still in school despite their massive restrictions and has been the whole time! And yes Scotland's cases have risen but everyone hasn't suddenly started dropping dead. People are perfectly happy to shout 'lack of school testing' in the first week of summer for the reason in the drop of cases. But when they ride they won't apply the same logic, it will be that kids are super spreaders! My kid needs her education, and at this point I'm willing to put that first before a load of 'what ifs', hypothetical situations and unfounded targeting of kids in schools.

any cold now will have to be isolating at home until a PCR test result

No, it wont. You only have to get s PCR test for Covid symptoms

• a new continuous cough, defined by the NHS as "coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours "
• a temperature
• loss of smell

Lots of children get a cold involving just a blocked/runny nose. They may cough an odd time to clear their throat of mucous from post nasal drip, especially first thing.

Those are not Covid symptoms, and a child with cold symptoms doesnt need to be tested and can go to school.

I think a lot of people who agree with school closures dont understand what "Covid is now endemic" means.

• it will circulate widely, all the time.
• lots and lots of people will get it mildly, repeatedly.
• a number of people (particularly elderly or extremely unwell people) will die with it each winter, as is already the case with flu
• booster vaccines will protect the vast majority of those most vulnerable.

We will live with Covid, its never going away.

Theyre talking about bringing back isolation for school kids where I am because the mandatory pcr tests are putting pressure on the system, but my daughter who started school for first time ever last week is going back to school today after 2 days off rather than 10 days off so I actually prefer it. I have 2 kids under 5 and working from home has been so bad for my mental health and probs not ideal for them to have a mum working and being distracted from them when they're with me. I just can't think of anything worse than disrupting all these kids educations again.

If anyone hasn't had the vaccine by this stage then it's their choice. We need to live with it because everyone dies if something one day and ruining our kids lives for this reason is ridiculous

We're meant to believe this CV child's risk has nothing whatsoever to do with his own mother's insistence that he absolutely must be in in-person education despite the known dangers to him. Nope, when the obvious happens, it will be 100% everyone else's fault. All of those selfish people who didn't want to homeschool or arrange other childcare because it was "inconvenient." Never mind that doing those things herself would have protected her CV child much more effectively. Funny how not doing something obvious because of "inconvenience" is only a good enough reason when it's one's own inconvenience. Also funny how other people have a moral obligation to upend their lives as much as is necessary to protect her child. She, apparently, has no similar moral obligation to protect her own child

Yeah, we had months and months of wailing about children’s mental health. We have a thread now about the importance of school. But only the mental health and education of children who aren’t vulnerable to covid seems to matter. All the vulnerable kids don’t deserve even the most basic of mitigation’s to help them stay in school and be educated amongst their peers.

My child is CV. He can expect to live into his 70s. He can expect to be economically productive throughout his adult life. But you want him to do that without the benefit of the education his peers have. I’m a single parent and a shortage area teacher. We’re on benefits if I home school. As for sacrifices, we make them every single day. Your post is beyond anything I have ever read on here. Talk about I’m alright, Jack.

There won't be an October lockdown. At worst, half term will be two weeks instead of one (which lots of schools already do, my kids have two weeks off in October). Schools won't close - unless they have staffing problems from staff being off with Covid.

No more lockdowns, no more school closures. I genuinely don't think there will be.

... and the justification for an other lockdown is?
Haven't really seen a good enough reson on this thread yet that would warrant yet more interruption of our children's education.

I think schools will stay open.
At the end of the summer term only Nursery, Reception and one KS2 class were in school, the others were sent home to SI. On day 1 of the Autumn term we have children in Y1 & Y3 taken home early due to positive PCR tests, but of course now the rest of the class don't have to SI. We also had two teacher go home on the first day of term with severe D&V. Things are being juggled so we don't have to get supply teachers in. We could have half of the staff off and shove classes together to avoid supply staff. We could have lots of children off with Covid and well just be carrying in as normal. It won't be until the bodies start piling up in morgues that schools will close again, IMO.

As much as we all desperately want to get back to normal, and for this to be over, it isn't. There will be massive consequences to the government's current 'strategy' for schools and our young people.

@toots111

If they stop my kids from going to school again I will take my kids to Downing Street and let Boris look after them. My kids have been out of school too much over the last 18 months. They have isolated multiple times. And they have had Covid with literally not a single symptom. They have done everything that has been asked of them for a virus that has no impact on them. I am not a key worker and my young kids have to basically look after themselves whilst I work a really stressful job full time from home. It is not fair, not acceptable, that they have to sacrifice any more.

Absolutely this.

@DeepaBeesKit

any cold now will have to be isolating at home until a PCR test result

No, it wont. You only have to get s PCR test for Covid symptoms

• a new continuous cough, defined by the NHS as "coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours "
• a temperature
• loss of smell

Lots of children get a cold involving just a blocked/runny nose. They may cough an odd time to clear their throat of mucous from post nasal drip, especially first thing.

Those are not Covid symptoms, and a child with cold symptoms doesnt need to be tested and can go to school.

How do you feel about the three testable symptoms not being the main ones that children present with though?

We’ve been back less than a week and Covid cases have rocketed. I’m not concerned about the children as they are all fine. The problem is we have lots of staff off too and we are on the brink of not coping already. This is your issue - school will close not because we are worried about your child’s health (although I worry about the CV children) but because we can’t supervise the children safely.

By the way, we have gone back to bubbles, masks and limited outside contact until case numbers fall. I am not in the SW and I think we went back before many other schools so I am interested to see the pattern elsewhere.

I don't think we will have a prolonged education closue, at least I hope not. Looking at cases, we will presumably need a circuit breaker, but Johnson will try to resist, and he may prevail.

It seems inevitable we are going to see a very high number of children with symptoms, and therefore missing school. Plus an (unacceptably in my view) high number with serious long covid. Teacher shortages will be problematic, both due to regular covid and long covid.

Rising cases will mean school will feel like a very grim place and a lot of kids who do get sick are going to be pretty that neither the government nor their own parents were minded to try to improve things for them.

05:06AlixandraTheGreat

"Peteycat

Finally! A thread where everyone (well most) are agreeing that this has to stop. Oh it definitely does. So happy the children are finally back to normal. We will keep it that way for them. Anyone who wants another load of restrictions and lockdowns do what you want. We can watch the children be happy and bright again"

Happy and bright ... and ill, quite possibly, unfortunately

As you know, covid is a very mild illness in children, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

"Rising cases will mean school will feel like a very grim place and a lot of kids who do get sick are going to be pretty sad that neither the government nor their own parents were minded to try to improve things for them."

What a horrible thing to say. You don't know this at all. What is that you actually want?

If cases rise in schools I think that the government will just keep them open.

We may well end up with another send in letters and refuse to work situation.

The sad thing is that if the government were really bothered they would put measures in place to prevent school closures from happening.

That's for you @Iannistunut.

BBC is reporting that Oct lockdown won’t happen (at least not for schools) www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58474536

@Peteycat

"Rising cases will mean school will feel like a very grim place and a lot of kids who do get sick are going to be pretty sad that neither the government nor their own parents were minded to try to improve things for them."

What a horrible thing to say. You don't know this at all. What is that you actually want?

It isn't 'horrible' - are you six years old? I am not being a meanie, I just think the UK approach to schools is appalling. I have to send my children in to an unsatisfactory environment.

The UK has fewer in-school mitigations than almost all European countries, and far higher cases. We all know more UK children will catch Covid. Therefore more UK children will either miss school due to having Covid or suffer long Covid.

I don't think many kids who get long Covid will be thrilled, will they?

Of course none of this is what I want. Don't be childish. If you think the UK is doing the right thing and your kids are going in to a sensible situation, that is fine - please feel free to state your position but I am entitled to state mine.

@Internetio

speaking as a parent who has after 4 school days now got 2 kids back at home isolating I can't see this being sustainable but I also don't know what the solution is.

One of the daftest points is the repeated contact notification (I'll explain as that probably doesn't make any sense) DD's friend tested positive on Sunday, result received on Monday, school notified us as a close contact to get a test and isolate until result. Result today: negative- yey back to school tomorrow... except Noooo, one of the other kids notified as a close contact at the same time as DD had now tested positive, we are again notified and so tomorrow we need to go and do it all again. chance that DD may test positive after this test due to proximity etc, so then 10 days isolation on top of the 3/4 days she's already had to take off for isolations until tests are returned. Under the old scheme it was 10 days isolation from first contact and none of the faff of repeated testing.

No, it was always 10 days from positive result.

[quote HelloViroids]BBC is reporting that Oct lockdown won’t happen (at least not for schools) www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58474536[/quote]
No, the report says "It is not true that the government is planning a lockdown or firebreak around the October half term," and The prime minister's spokesman also denied the report. He said plans had been kept for a range of scenarios - "but these kind of measures would only be reintroduced as a last resort to prevent unsustainable pressure on our NHS" which = 'we have draft plans for if/when'.

@noblegiraffe

Are you in Scotland, Internetio? There's no requirement to stay off school while waiting for PCR results as a contact in England, and school doesn't count as being a close contact.

Schools have imposed there own rules. Our school (England) insists on self-isolating if a close contact until neg result comes back.

What a vile post @PurpleOkapi.