AIBU about people who say ‘they worked hard to get to where they are’?

[MessyMissyMe]

Generally these are highly paid people who were able to go to University (support from parents/inherited intellect/confidence and self belief built up by secure, happy childhood) or had the resources to start their own business and were lucky enough to get remunerated by employment that they enjoyed and were good at, didn’t have outside influences or stressors that made things harder/took up time they needed to study or build a career.

They basically are just LUCKY and don’t deserve their success anymore than a cleaner or a care worker living hand to mouth in social housing deserves their lack of.

AIBU to get annoyed at people who say this?

I sometimes think things either come to you or they don’t . You can be paddling like mad and stagnating or sometimes it falls in your lap. If only we could timetable or predict it but just be grateful when things sometimes go your way. Ambition wasn’t instilled within me at school or at home. When I really focused I achieved amazing goals but I found it very hard to sustain that success because it seemed to me the landscape was always evolving but Thank Goodness for that because this is where some of us get lucky.
If u grade your life in terms of having not arrived or you count your blessings. You will be more content to feel blessed. There is no shame in being grateful for the small or simple things because life can trip you up and no one can escape that. It could be when your young or old and you will feel the full spectrum of emotion in your lifetime. Grief, love, your ego getting carried away on whichever scale . If you can understand that we are in context all to become specks of dust. At my highest success I felt the most truly empty because it was such insane focus to get there. I couldn’t help feeling that it wasn’t all it was cracked up to be. The stress seemed to manifest in my dental health whenever I pushed myself beyond. I grew up in Privilege and then we lost it all down to zero but for the memory and how to adapt to survive new terrain. So knowing both sides can be useful. I don’t crave the status stuff but I want to be able to blend in or merge. I am very aware that to have excess someone else has to go without. We have abundance which means things are dumped and thrown away in the city its material goods in the countryside it can be blackberries falling to the roadside. If you can go through life believing you are lucky without carrying any burden you are either in a lucky state of permanency or you’ve had a lobotomy! I always thought ignorance is bliss as a teenager because the responsibility of awareness of all our choices. There is no wrong decision because you base them on what u understand at the time. Hindsight cannot exist. I think we all battle for our egos and I am trying to take responsibility for where I have arrived without blaming externals. Becoming cynical is a downfall and bitterness can creep in with age. We really must try and free ourselves from this in the form of resentment. I would love a dog but you will have to pick up shit all day this to me sums up life . You don’t just get fluffy cuddles u have to own the shit as well! If you look at someone as lucky remember they have the responsibility of maintaining that good fortune.

@EatSleepRantRepeat

Maybe they were lucky in the way they were actually nice people unlike your fine self

What's nice got to do with it? @hothammock sounds like they have had a similar experience to me, and it's hard when family and friends aren't supportive of success because of envy. We don't have to be nice to people who were given similar opportunities but wasted them and think we should have done the same - I'm already paying for some of family's poor choices (including multiple children with deadbeats) in my tax bill.

To be so sneering and judgemental of your own family is beyond me. Blaming them for having money problems etc. Wahh well if they'd have only worked hard like me Seriously have a word with yourself

it wasnt luck that brought me to london, it wasnt luck that got me my two bed flat in the 90s, it was the time where deposits werent required and I benefited, in the interim i ended up a single mum and being tough with my money and was grateful the rules were the way the were as I managed to purchase my property. It wasnt 'luck'...i have had a shitty childhood, with a father who beat my mum. left my mum alone at aged 23 with 3 DC, we struggled and it toughened me. It wasnt luck that made me want to stay independent, it wasnt luck that brought me to london and it certainly wasnt luck that when as a single mother i managed to get a mortgage. I wanted to leave where i grew up, i did the minute i could and even though i made bad choices with men I still managed to get a mortgage a single mum. It wasnt 'luck' that I met my DH, we just happened to be in the same place when he was training, him falling in love with me was not luck and we ended up in a good place ... although we may have been lucky to buy where we now live as we bought at the 2008-2009 dip and got a great house in a great area...although my OH would argue that he had been watching the market and waited until it was right before we bought out house/

@dryasaboner
I think it really depends on the situation. One of my friends is in a similar position to the previous poster. Her family seem to resent her for not being a failure. She was at uni at the same time as me, but she was four years older as she had worked first whilst doing A-levels part time at college so she could get into uni. When she graduated (with a first) her parents would not attend her graduation as they claimed she was trying to show them up. She moved to London with work, they seemed to resent her for moving to the South. She earns a lot of money and is incredibly good at what she does, yet all her family say about her work is she does not have a "proper job".

When she visits at Christmas and birthdays and she buys presents, they either complain she is being cheap, that she is trying to show off with expensive gifts, or both at the same time. She drives a reasonable car, but four five years old, not expensive and bought second hand, but they say she is being "flash". Reverse snobbery against the those who have done well can sometimes come from those people's families and it is very upsetting for those that are the victim of it. The family members an be very sneering and judgemental just because someone has done well for themselves, I can't understand how anyone could be like that towards someone they care about.

I hate people saying I'm lucky. I was lucky some opportunities came up but I took them when others didn't.

I come from a working class family, only one who has ever been to university. Worked 3 jobs to fund uni and gain job experience. Met now husband (also working class, council estate background) he went to university and later did a PhD.

We went without a lot to buy our first house then bought project houses, did them up and sold them. Our most recent one we don't plan to sell as it's a lovely old house on the countryside but does need work. We have worked damn hard to own this place. Meanwhile whilst working full time and doing house renovations I did my master's degree to get a better job.

I was "lucky" that the chance to do my MSc came up but none of my colleagues applied for it. They could have been "lucky" too.

I can tell you when other people relaxed at weekends we wrote essays, stripped walls, landscaped gardens and had no holidays or luxuries and it's paid off. I did work hard for what I have.

UrbanRambler

This is an insightful observation.
I often wonder this world of online. When I work with children I have to remind them to look after themselves in reality ( drink a glass of water for example) as they get so sucked into life online they forget their actual bodily needs.
I feel like the material world and status money from earnings but then you have your physical health and mental health that can suffer to maintain this because of being sucked into all the external things that people are aspiring to. The most important vehicle ,home is your body and the journey your mind takes in that body these are the most valuable assets we have to look after.

Right this really, really fucked me off. In 1980 242 kids sat in portway school hall. 7 years later one went to university. So I had less than 1% chance of further education. My dad couldn't read or write. Mum left school at 14. Dad was sick and from 10 I grew up on benefits.

I now have 2.5 million in savings.

My mates who grew up similar are: car dealership owner, senior fire officer, property developer, electric company owner, world traveller who owns several houses, car garage owner.....etc etc

@dryasaboner I treat people they way they treat me - whoever said blood is thicker than water is an idiot. Several family members and friends from school had a rough time in their teens and twenties, including unplanned pregnancies and illness. The ones I respect are the ones who did whatever was in their power to improve their situation instead of expecting everyone else to do it for them.

There are several people on this thread who have mentioned how they define success based on their circumstances, eg part time work, study, doing tasks they can do rather than focusing on the ones they can't and just sitting around complaining. They're all to be admired and it has nothing to do with what they have in the bank.

@mynameisbrian

it wasnt luck that brought me to london, it wasnt luck that got me my two bed flat in the 90s, it was the time where deposits werent required and I benefited, in the interim i ended up a single mum and being tough with my money and was grateful the rules were the way the were as I managed to purchase my property. It wasnt 'luck'...i have had a shitty childhood, with a father who beat my mum. left my mum alone at aged 23 with 3 DC, we struggled and it toughened me. It wasnt luck that made me want to stay independent, it wasnt luck that brought me to london and it certainly wasnt luck that when as a single mother i managed to get a mortgage. I wanted to leave where i grew up, i did the minute i could and even though i made bad choices with men I still managed to get a mortgage a single mum. It wasnt 'luck' that I met my DH, we just happened to be in the same place when he was training, him falling in love with me was not luck and we ended up in a good place ... although we may have been lucky to buy where we now live as we bought at the 2008-2009 dip and got a great house in a great area...although my OH would argue that he had been watching the market and waited until it was right before we bought out house/

Of course it was luck that you were able to buy a two-bed flat in London when deposits weren't required, right before house prices exploded!! Of course it was luck you happened to meet your DH! What the heck is wrong with people...if I were you I'd be thanking my lucky stars for my good fortune!

I perfectly know what you mean you will never heard a nurse/healthcare Assistnat, physio saying it. Because yes we work very hard but “where we are” is nothing special. And yes we went to uni, do physical and mental demanding work. Unfortunately pay doesn’t correlate with how hard the work is. Or how competent you are.

@mynameisbrian

it wasnt luck that brought me to london, it wasnt luck that got me my two bed flat in the 90s, it was the time where deposits werent required and I benefited, in the interim i ended up a single mum and being tough with my money and was grateful the rules were the way the were as I managed to purchase my property. It wasnt 'luck'...i have had a shitty childhood, with a father who beat my mum. left my mum alone at aged 23 with 3 DC, we struggled and it toughened me. It wasnt luck that made me want to stay independent, it wasnt luck that brought me to london and it certainly wasnt luck that when as a single mother i managed to get a mortgage. I wanted to leave where i grew up, i did the minute i could and even though i made bad choices with men I still managed to get a mortgage a single mum. It wasnt 'luck' that I met my DH, we just happened to be in the same place when he was training, him falling in love with me was not luck and we ended up in a good place ... although we may have been lucky to buy where we now live as we bought at the 2008-2009 dip and got a great house in a great area...although my OH would argue that he had been watching the market and waited until it was right before we bought out house/

Reread your own post Bought in London when it was affordable. Met a solvent partner in good job so two wages & stable relationship Great house great area That’s a whole heap of luck

EspressoDoubleShot yep all luck...coming from a broken home where we used to live in a zero bed tenement with an outisde toilet... For me my upbringing made me want something more. i got that...my sisters are all in the area we grew up but they all managed despite our upbringing to have worked, own their own home and have a good lifestyle. sometimes upbringing builds a drive within those that know struggle not to have the same

You’ll note I didn’t actually comment on your difficult familial upbringing
Purposefully Brian
Because it was clearly difficult and fraught
Your property progression was actually lucky and I’ve commented on it

i am actually insulted to be advised i am 'lucky' should tell my mother that the beatings she experienced as a young mum has helped me be who I am. I actually was in an abusive relationship and chucked him out and was a single mum who bought her flat...but i should feel lucky--however at the time I was desperate and not knowing a way out. Thank god there was zero deposits required for a property...fucking luck....are you all taking the piss....

I went to university with no help financially from my parents - graduated and yes, worked bloody hard to get where I am now.
I have worked on a shop floor in a factory, as a cleaner, pot washer and waitress and as a health care assistant along the way.
Not everyone that goes to university has had it easy and don't make assumptions that we haven't known the same hard graft as you.

EspressoDoubleShot i totally understand what your saying, buying at that stage was very different to now and also house prices have got ridiculous. I would have sold up and moved out if I hadnt met my Dh. Would have likely been mortgage free if I had tbh.

I think it's often a bit of both.

My husband owns a fairly successful business. He started it when we first met. He sold practically everything he owned to start it including his car. He would be there from morning until night 7 days a week.

It's only in the past few year where it's really taken off to a level where it's reaping good profits for us but it genuinely did take him an incredible amount of hard work to get there.

However I am aware there are also elements of luck in there too for sure.

Only on mumsnet do I seem to read about all these people living in abject poverty who are now wealthy and successful. Funnily enough, irl, most people do not escape their background

@mynameisbrian

i am actually insulted to be advised i am 'lucky' should tell my mother that the beatings she experienced as a young mum has helped me be who I am. I actually was in an abusive relationship and chucked him out and was a single mum who bought her flat...but i should feel lucky--however at the time I was desperate and not knowing a way out. Thank god there was zero deposits required for a property...fucking luck....are you all taking the piss....

Yes, what part of luck do you not understand???!

If you were in that situation today, you wouldn't have the same good outcome, because you now need a huge deposit for a property!

'Luck' being a key part of your success doesn't mean you had it easy every step of the way. It means a massive part of where you are now was down to pure chance. Being in a position to buy in London in the 90s was enormously lucky, and is the reason a lot of people who are set up for life are where they are, rather than struggling in a flatshare at age 45.

But we all know if you’ve had difficult family/poverty/trauma you do have to work harder against the conscious & unconscious bias, the exclusionary codes and etiquette of the middle classes. And it’s still a hard graft even when you do progress.
I turned up early to a training once, upon arrival at venue indicated I was here for X event and I was then taken to the kitchen. I’m kind of baffled explaining no I don’t need to eat I’m here for the event. They thought I was hospitality staff. I was a speaker…

@mynameisbrian

EspressoDoubleShot i totally understand what your saying, buying at that stage was very different to now and also house prices have got ridiculous. I would have sold up and moved out if I hadnt met my Dh. Would have likely been mortgage free if I had tbh.

Right, so can you not see that anyone in a similar position to the one you were in is very unlucky compared to you?

I've toiled my entire life and only just now able to buy a one-bed flat in a run-down area, that needs doing up. I've had to save up for years to have the deposit despite earning well above average and doing without luxuries. The repayments will be really high and leave me with very little left over to save or invest, or have a nice lifestyle. And I still consider myself lucky compared to many others who will never be able to buy.

@Cornettoninja It would be a dull world if we all agreed.

I'm not talking about equality. I'm talking about her sense of annoyance. Be proud of yourself don't find fault.

@AlecTrevelyan006 All of those things are - at least in part - dependent on luck

How so?

Self belief/courage - doesn't require luck. It's a mindset.

Surrounding influences - anyone can chose to NC family, or ditch friends that bring you down. Choice.

Commitments (family/kids) - if you're struggling for resources or time because you started a family before doing well for yourself, well, it was a choice.

Education (self learning/courses) - books are cheap. Self help, personal development. So many resources for next to nothing. No luck required.

Only thing I'd agree with, is that not everyone has their health. Even then, I know loads thag haven't let this hold them back, and get offended if I've presumed it held them back. Cos they felt they'd achieve what they achieved regardless.

It's not bitter to observe that plenty of minimum wage & zero-hours jobs are extremely hard work.

I don't doubt for a second that there are lots of people that that really out the hours on for themselves and their families.the question is what choices did they make coupled with the working to get where they want to be?

Even if you work in a lower laid job your choices and hard work determine where you end up. You could work in a supermarket but work hard to save up for 10 years to buy a house before you have children. Take overtime,work unsociable hours. You can still choose to be married or at least in a long term relationship before having children and not have multiple children by multiple partners.

You can work hard to learn to cook cheaper fresh healthy meals and shop savvy for ingredients to save money on shopping and feed yourself in a nutritious way for your health.

You can work hard at keeping fit, getting up every day for a run before work, doing yoga off YouTube. You maintain your health. (apart from unavoidable conditions that people sadly get)

So even if you don't have a university education, high flying career etc you can work hard to give your self the best shot at good health and a stable life for your children.

It isn't about working hard for loads of money it's about working hard to always make the best choices.

@Brokensunflower

It's not bitter to observe that plenty of minimum wage & zero-hours jobs are extremely hard work.

I don't doubt for a second that there are lots of people that that really out the hours on for themselves and their families.the question is what choices did they make coupled with the working to get where they want to be?

Even if you work in a lower laid job your choices and hard work determine where you end up. You could work in a supermarket but work hard to save up for 10 years to buy a house before you have children. Take overtime,work unsociable hours. You can still choose to be married or at least in a long term relationship before having children and not have multiple children by multiple partners.

You can work hard to learn to cook cheaper fresh healthy meals and shop savvy for ingredients to save money on shopping and feed yourself in a nutritious way for your health.

You can work hard at keeping fit, getting up every day for a run before work, doing yoga off YouTube. You maintain your health. (apart from unavoidable conditions that people sadly get)

So even if you don't have a university education, high flying career etc you can work hard to give your self the best shot at good health and a stable life for your children.

It isn't about working hard for loads of money it's about working hard to always make the best choices.

Bless you.