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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gutted about NI rise

999 replies

CarryOnNurse20 · 07/09/2021 10:46

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

OP posts:
Marrino1305 · 07/09/2021 15:47

@usernamealreadytaken

"Can be up to £11 a week for some people! That could be almost £50 a month for some individuals which is a lot to take out of the monthly budget"

@Marrino1305 anyone paying that amount is earning well over £50k - even if the rise had been applied only on income tax as some are saying would be "fairer", they would be paying that if not more.

It's just frustrating though isn't it when they're slashing UC, upping NI etc. when loads of people are struggling financially atm after unemployment, and there's no new announcements of support. Just feels like it's take take take all the time from this gov - I understand we need to pay for things, but it's not like NI ever comes down again once it's gone up. Just annoying
Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 15:48

@Claudethecat

This thread really is an eye opener. So much hate misdirected hate towards older people. They don't make the rules on tax and pensions, governments do. The majority of people in England voted Tory, why is anyone surprised they are not going after the wealthy, including wealthy older people?
Because they are the ones who vote the government in, prioritising their own luxuries over the basic needs of others. They’re not blameless onlookers, they have happily voted Tory time and time again, watching them slash and tax everyone else. So they basically do make the rules, by proxy.
Booknooks · 07/09/2021 15:48

@Claudethecat

This thread really is an eye opener. So much hate misdirected hate towards older people. They don't make the rules on tax and pensions, governments do. The majority of people in England voted Tory, why is anyone surprised they are not going after the wealthy, including wealthy older people?
Mumsnet is always the same.

Personally I'm okay with the rise if it is used responsibly and towards those who need it. I don't agree with the cap though, and if it is going towards rich people with plenty of assets withering away in the bank then seems pointless- appreciate that despite what many on here think, that isn't the majority of pensioners.

Thelittleweasel · 07/09/2021 15:49

@CarryOnNurse20

Do please remember that NI kicks it at around £100 so if say you earn £300 per week you will be paying and extra £2.50 per week. Less than the cost of a cup of coffee I'm told. The stupid thing in my mind is that it does not even start tomorrow [as it should] but in 2022. We need to pay more tax [and I know we don't like it] but UK needs fixing.

Claudethecat · 07/09/2021 15:50

also cannot believe some of the people who get awarded it. My friends dad gets it. At her wedding he was dancing round the dance floor. He had cancer many years ago seems to get it based on this. It certainly doesn't stop him doing anything, he looks after grandkids, walks the dog etc. There seems to be little in the way of checking that it is going to the right people

You have no idea what health problems your friend's dad may have.

Rosehip10 · 07/09/2021 15:51

@Thelittleweasel Do you earn 2p per propaganda post from tory HQ?

Knittingupastorm · 07/09/2021 15:51

I've been seeing a few petitions lately for 'politics' being brought into the curriculum - it's neither a surprise, nor a subject to be dismissed. It's long, LONG overdue and desperately needed.

I agree. I was vaguely taught politics in a couple of form tutor sessions with a PE teacher who genuinely did not know if we were a communist or capitalist country, because he didn’t know what those words meant.

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2021 15:53

@Islamorada

Gosh people in this country do not even care about their parents/ grandparents. Reading this thread is an eye opener. They are lefties until they have to open their purses. So disgusting!
Tbf my grandmother paid her own care. She left everything to a dogs protection racket or something. My mum and uncles didn't get a penny. They weren't bothered as they'd be told what she was doing and weren't expecting anything.

My parents are financially planning so we don't have to pay for any care they might need. My mum had to handle her mothers care issues a lot so is well aware of how it works and doesn't want to burden us with it.

This means I'm extremely unlikely to get any inheritance. Tbh in some ways I'm actually glad of this. It means I don't have to worry that I might be financially burdened by their care, so although i wont get the perk of inheritance, I'm free of that concern.

Meanwhile DHs parents are deliberately living it up to burn up all their assets and finances. DHs mother says she won't care about her care if she is demented. She doesn't however realise just how bad state provided care is - and shes not exactly good with 'things not being up to her standards'. So we can well see a situation arising where Dh and his siblings are expected to cough up just to make sure she can die 'in the manner shes become accustomed' to. Fortunately since Dh isnt trusted he isnt named as one of the decision makers on any of his parents paperwork so that mess will primarily fall to his brother and sister to work out between them.

My point here is that some people deliberately are planning for social care needs and others who can afford it are deliberately planning to avoid doing so because they think its the states responsibility (not realising what the quality of state care amounts to).

Thats the frustrating bit because you have a range of people either taking responsibility or deliberately abdicating it.

To say we don't care about our parents / grandparents care in that context misses a lot of points about quality of care and who is willing to pay rather than can pay. And who this burden of responsibility ultimately falls upon.

DH and his 2 siblings will have to probably do something for his parents despite them currently swanning off on cruises which are up to £80,000 time!

I don't think its hard to see why DH and his siblings are already concerned and quite resentful of the situation. His brother is a doctor so is all to well aware of the inadequacies of state social care and has tried to explain this to his parents without much joy...

worrybutterfly · 07/09/2021 15:53

@LondonJax

It's not common over the U.K. but it's 100% happening especially in more affluent areas. Which is why this is so unequal, people who are wealthy can do this, but other can't.

There are 2 houses in my close alone that are currently being rented out to help cover costs of care homes. The rental income probably doesn't cover the full cost, but by the time pension income and savings are added onto it then I imagine it's covered.

I obviously don't know full circumstances. But before going into care neither of these people seemed particularly hard up, they had good holidays a few times year, brand new cars every couple of years, sky tv, and would always offer you £50 if you did them the slightest favour. I know one of them had a holiday home too.

The other thing I know that one of them their son had power of attorney, and they got put in a VERY dismal care home. It's a shame because the guy was so lovely and had such a good quality of life, which I doubt he's getting anything close to in the home he's in. But that's a different matter.

I'm not saying renting out the house to cover care is the norm at all. It 100% isn't, however it's a possibility for those who are asset/property rich. But now instead of using the income for their care they get to just save it up so it can be inherited alongside the house.

It's wrong. And I say that as someone who could potentially benefit from being able to rent out my parents homes if they go into care.

Cheeseplantboots · 07/09/2021 15:55

It’s not just about old people though. I have a disabled adult son. The support and care is practically non existent because there isn’t the money to fund proper care for him.

Boomkin · 07/09/2021 15:56

I guess today's 18 year olds arent quite so bursting with skills as your father clearly was
He was neither 18 nor bursting with skills. He left school at 15 and went straight to work in a factory making electrical components on an assembly line. Worked hard and got promoted to supervise and train other workers. Then got promoted to management level and ended up in an extremely good job. Nowadays it’s impossible to start on the assembly line and end up as a director. The top jobs would require at least a 4 year degree with the accompanying huge debt and missing out on a salary for 4 years, and even then it would probably be a struggle to find a graduate job afterwards. I agree that doctors etc need degrees but it’s ridiculous that literally everyone has to have one.

Millicentsparty · 07/09/2021 15:56

@Overthebow
I don’t mind paying extra for this, but what I do mind is it only being the working population being hit.

So you wouldn't have allowed pensioners to avail themselves of the NHS when it was introduced in 1948? The working population now will have their elderly care paid for by the working population in the future.

At least the govt are trying to do something. At last there's a discussion about it. Unless you have an elderly relative struggling in the morass of the present day social care system, it's truly hard to understand just how much of a mess it is. I don't think people realise that unless we start to tackle this soon, there'll be no social care system left when people of working age now need help in the future.

Tabitha005 · 07/09/2021 15:57

@XingMing

Politics was taught in schools, but it was scaled back from 5% of curriculum to 'nice to have'. I qualified to teach Citizenship (second career) and the rules changed as I started applying for jobs. No jobs, unless I moved a long way from DH and DS.

Believe me, you have never seen boredom quite like that shown by 30 Y9s asked to consider the relative advantages of voting systems. Like it or not, people only start to consider politics important when they wake up to experiencing its effects via their pay cheques and deductions.

It needs to be taught in a way that kids can relate to, obviously. Real world examples, peer group interaction, engaging, interesting, relatable people coming into the classroom to talk about their experiences, to pose questions, invite debate (some of the most common gripes about school in general from children I worked with was that their voices were never heard, their opinions and thoughts never asked for, their experiences never sought out for inclusion in the learning process).

People like Akala, for example, who did (not sure if he still does) do masses of work with schools, who can talk to kids on an entirely absorbing level about politically-driven topics.

Any subject is dry and boring if it's all just theoretical and endlessly delivered via one medium. Equally so if it's kids just being 'talked at' and not asked for their opinions or experiences. I think Marcus Rashford did more for kid's political awareness than almost anything else I can think of in recent times - so many children raising their voices to offer support, anecdotes of their own experiences of poverty and discrimination. Greta Thunberg - in many ways - also galvanises kids to action. Seeing people of their own age doing momentous, life-changing things to address some of the most pressing concerns facing humans and the planet is one way to get children actively thinking about what THEY could do.

I agree that 30 Y9s being asked to think about voting systems sounds like a one-way trip to boredom, but perhaps there's a reason 'politics' was delivered in that way, too? Make it boring and they won't want to think about it? Exclusion via disinterest.

lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 15:57

So many heartless, selfish, ageist people on this thread. It’s a really nasty read.

Babyroobs · 07/09/2021 15:57

@Claudethecat

also cannot believe some of the people who get awarded it. My friends dad gets it. At her wedding he was dancing round the dance floor. He had cancer many years ago seems to get it based on this. It certainly doesn't stop him doing anything, he looks after grandkids, walks the dog etc. There seems to be little in the way of checking that it is going to the right people

You have no idea what health problems your friend's dad may have.

Of course I do. My friend is surprised he gets it, I'm sure she knows what problems her own dad has !
Babyroobs · 07/09/2021 15:58

@Cheeseplantboots

It’s not just about old people though. I have a disabled adult son. The support and care is practically non existent because there isn’t the money to fund proper care for him.
Also carers gettig a pittance for providing complex around the clock care is an outrage.
Boomkin · 07/09/2021 15:58

So many heartless, selfish, ageist people on this thread. It’s a really nasty read.
On the contrary, I don’t object to older people receiving care. I object to their care being paid for our of my pocket so their heirs can receive a fat inheritance.

Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 16:00

@lllllllllll I would say hoovering up resources then allowing skint people to fund you while voting in cruel governments is heartless & selfish. You can’t blame working people for being pissed off with it?

lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 16:01

So you wouldn't have allowed pensioners to avail themselves of the NHS when it was introduced in 1948? The working population now will have their elderly care paid for by the working population in the future.

Exactly - just as it should be! At least Boris has had the guts to grasp the nettle and make an unpopular but correct decision on this one. Yes it would be better if it were paid through income tax, but at least the issue is finally being addressed and this solution is far better than doing nothing at all. I just hope he sticks to his guns now.

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2021 16:02

Dh did a mock election for his scouts. He made them write their manifesto. He said one group could lie as much as they liked and one group had to be honest. Then changed the voting system. Then said only certain people were eligible to vote.

He showed them how this changed the results.

They were shocked to see that the liars won, that the voting system really matter and how unfair it was when they weren't allowed to vote.

One of the nights hes had best feed back from both kids and parents.

I do think it can definitely be taught well. It just has to be relevant and meaningful.

lllllllllll · 07/09/2021 16:03

@lllllllllll I would say hoovering up resources then allowing skint people to fund you while voting in cruel governments is heartless & selfish. You can’t blame working people for being pissed off with it?

I am a working person and as I’ve said multiple times, I’m very happy to pay more tax for better healthcare, social care, education etc.

VanGoghsDog · 07/09/2021 16:04

[quote Realyorkshiretea]@lllllllllll I would say hoovering up resources then allowing skint people to fund you while voting in cruel governments is heartless & selfish. You can’t blame working people for being pissed off with it?[/quote]
My 81yo mother has not voted Tory in her life, she'd rather die.

Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 16:04

You don’t seem to grasp the issue, @lllllllllll

We will be nowhere NEAR as well off as the boomers in our old age, so we will NEED the working population to assist with the care budget

But the boomers ARE well off, so given we’ve crashed the economy to protect their health, surely it would be morally correct for them to make bigger contributions towards their own care?

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 07/09/2021 16:04

@Islamorada

Gosh people in this country do not even care about their parents/ grandparents. Reading this thread is an eye opener. They are lefties until they have to open their purses. So disgusting!
I have no issue at all with taxes being increased to fund improvements in healthcare, welfare, social care etc. What I object hugely to is:
  • Only working age people being taxed more
  • Only income from work being taxed more passive income received from dividends, investments, share growth etc. is not subject to NI)
  • The use of a non-progressive form of tax such as NI, which is paid at a LOWER rate by higher earners than lower earners.

Basically, if you're wealthy and old - you're exempt; if you're young but live off investments rather than working for a living - you're exempt; if you're young and on a high salary - the impact you'll feel as a proportion of your income is lower than if you were on a low salary.

But if you're a working person on a low wage - you're hit hard. increasing tax in this specific way is a massive subsidy from poorer working age people to the more wealthy.

They should have added a percentage point to each of the income tax bands for all income types. And they should have considered a wealth tax (although a tory government would never do that).

BeenAsFarAsMercyAndGrand · 07/09/2021 16:05

That should have said:

- Only income from work being taxed more (passive income received from dividends, investments, share growth etc. is not subject to NI)

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