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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Gutted about NI rise

999 replies

CarryOnNurse20 · 07/09/2021 10:46

I know we need it and we have so much money to pay off. But we have been scrimping and saving after a hard couple of years. Every penny is accounted for from pay day to pay day. I’m a nurse and my pay has been capped/below inflation my whole career. And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone. I’m gutted.

OP posts:
Marrino1305 · 07/09/2021 15:24

@Annoyedanddissapointed

And now the NI rise means any savings etc we have made will now be gone.

Isn't it something like £11 a month on about 25k?

Can be up to £11 a week for some people! That could be almost £50 a month for some individuals which is a lot to take out of the monthly budget
Whycangirlsbesonasty · 07/09/2021 15:24

Not getting the multiples we have today for a mortgage is a good thing. It’s what kept mortgages low.

TangoWhiskyAlphaTango · 07/09/2021 15:25

Goodbye 3% NHS pay rise..........!!!!

Tabitha005 · 07/09/2021 15:26

[quote Porcupineintherough]@bagelsandoranges maybe young people and the under 40s had better start using their vote to better effect then. We get one each, regardless of our wealth.[/quote]
There's a reason subjects like politics and public governance aren't on the national curriculum. It's so heavily weighted towards vocational subjects designed to create workers as opposed to thinkers or leaders that it's not hard to imagine how wide-scale political awareness has effectively been kept away from the proles.

I heard a woman speaking on the radio a few weeks ago about careers advice - she said 'industry is telling us they want workers' and it made my heart sink. Careers advisors are fucked, though, because that's all state schools in the UK are designed to turn out now.

A state school student telling a careers advisors they want to be an artist or prime minister, a priest, Nobel-winning physicist, discoverer of the cure for ignorance, chief high justice or anything that's not on a dwindling list of suitable pathways is liable to get them laughed out of the room. I've worked in quite a few state schools over the past few years and continually had conversations with kids who saw zero point in having any real career ambition because they didn't think they were 'good enough' or 'clever' enough.

Being 'clever' isn't what's needed and you can't create 'clever' from the curriculum set before school kids right now because there's no room for debate, for curiosity or questioning - it's all about the data. Teachers are RUINED by the constant hunger for data, exhausted by constantly having to hit targets at every turn and they despair at the grinding necessity for evaluation over and above any sort of holistic or empathic element in the learning process.

The sheer joy of learning has been getting squeezed out of both teachers and kids for YEARS now and it does nothing to inspire vast numbers of children who simply cannot wait to get out of school and get started on whatever 'career' path has been half-heartedly handed down to them by a system hell bent on creating grist for the economy.

I've been seeing a few petitions lately for 'politics' being brought into the curriculum - it's neither a surprise, nor a subject to be dismissed. It's long, LONG overdue and desperately needed.

thegcatsmother · 07/09/2021 15:27

I wasn't saying that the mortgage multiples are good or bad, just that there is a difference. Like is not being compared to like as far as I can see.

cptartapp · 07/09/2021 15:29

Attendance allowance isn't means tested. That's intended for social care, gardeners, taxis etc. You can be a millionaire and still claim it. PIL claim it and FIL tells us he has more money coming in now through savings and investments than when he was working.
MIL who slates the NHS at every opportunity, hasn't worked a day in over 50 years so this 'paid their dues' that many spout is often nonsense.

Peregrina · 07/09/2021 15:29

Not all the elderly vote Tory either.

It needed saying.

Please don't tar all pensioners with the same brush. I am a pensioner, with a modest work pension and state pension, both of which are taxable and I still help my children out financially, even though they are in their 40s. But I have never voted Tory either and don't intend to start.

Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 15:31

@thegcatsmother

Why do posts such as yours keep going on about degrees like they’re some kind of hallmark of a privileged life? They’re bloody expensive and so many more jobs require one now than they did, eg nursing. I’m sure plenty would prefer to go straight into a decent job without having to do it, but they’ve become so commonplace for many it’s just another burden the pensioners didn’t have.

Buddywoo · 07/09/2021 15:33

We are pensioners, not well off but have enough for a reasonable standard of living and we pay income tax..

I think this tax is very unfair. It disproportionately affects younger people i.e. those at the start of their career and also lower earners. We are in our seventies so this tax won't affect us.

A fairer way would have been to put it on income tax and reserve the amount for social care. That way all tax paying pensioners would also contribute and those paying less tax because of a lower income would pay less.

Islamorada · 07/09/2021 15:33

Gosh people in this country do not even care about their parents/ grandparents. Reading this thread is an eye opener. They are lefties until they have to open their purses. So disgusting!

HesterShaw1 · 07/09/2021 15:35

@Islamorada

Gosh people in this country do not even care about their parents/ grandparents. Reading this thread is an eye opener. They are lefties until they have to open their purses. So disgusting!
So you're ignoring what many people are actually saying then? That they have no issue paying more tax to fund health and social care, if it's fair? Which these proposals are not.
Boomkin · 07/09/2021 15:36

How many in their 60s and 70s did a degree? 10% if that?
You make it sound like that’s a bad thing, when in fact it’s wonderful. They could just walk into a job and get paid from day 1. Nobody had to spend 3 years at university not earning just to open the door to a potential job. Or 4 years given that nowadays young people need a masters to differentiate themselves because a degree is no longer enough. Nobody had to rack up £60-80k debt just to be able to apply for a job. My Dad left school on Friday and walked into a job on Monday, and within a few years he was promoted to supervisor and bought a house by the age of 21. That’s impossible nowadays.

LondonJax · 07/09/2021 15:36

@worrybutterfly - I'd love to know where this utopia of getting more rent than care home fees land is! My mum's care home was charging £650 per week to self funders in 2018. That was for the basic care including food etc. For the higher care it was £695.

And they weren't a nursing home where you'd have more medical care. They' just' looked after dementia patients who could feed themselves (most of the time with encouragement). I think the people working there were saints. If that were still the rate, which I'd doubt after three years and Covid, you'd need to rent your home for over £2800 per month. Plus, of course, that fee doesn't include hairdressing, chiropody, personal stuff like deodrant or shampoo.

I totally agree the 'new' way that Boris has come up with doesn't allow for the rich who can bypass all of these taxes. But insisting dementia patients sell their homes to pay for care isn't fair - we don't ask others to sell their property when they need care in the home or have to go into care to cope. People cannot help getting dementia and, as we all live longer, many of our families will have to watch us decline like we did our mum. Either it's a case of everyone sells the home they want to leave to family or we find another way. You cannot have a two tiered system and a 'lottery' of illness.

There seems to be this idea that someone who inherits a home in these dementia circumstances has just sat by greedily waiting for a relative to die. No one bats an eyelid when a home is sold after the death of a person with another illness.

Many families are quietly working in the background desperately trying NOT to put their loved one into care. Many women, and most carers are women, have to give up work during their final 10 years at work. Which hugely impacts their pension. Which means they go onto benefits and have to have help when they retire. So that inherited house can mean the difference between them having a reasonable retirement and not needing benefits and us paying to keep their heads above water. The average homeowner doesn't have a second home or a huge pension. And care doesn't start in a care home. It begins many, many years before.

We were 'lucky' as mum was a council tenant and only had a state pension so were able to access help for free or relatively little. She didn't have a house to pass on. We, as a family, cared for her in her council flat for 5 years with increasingly more assistance. Just to put this idea of 'everyone with dementia goes into a care home and everything is dandy' into perspective...here's mum's story (and ours wasn't bad in comparison to many).

She began by forgetting to wipe down the kitchen surfaces or clean the loo. Then, over the five years she needed help with:

Washing and dressing - she'd forget to wash or put on underwear etc.

Medication - she was on warfarin. We started off with a pill box, then a call from one of us to remind her to take her tablet as she forgot to take the pills. She then got to the stage that she forgot what she needed to do from putting the phone down to getting to the table where her pill box was. Then, even more dangerously, she forgot she'd already taken the day's supply of pills so took the next days too.

So we had to buy in help twice a day to give her the tablets. Or she would have bled to death if she had a cut because warfarin thins the blood.

She then forgot how to cook 'properly' so we got her ready meals.

Then she began to leave meals in the oven or on the hob so we started with meals on wheels.

Finally she had to have 'soft' food as her ability to swallow was compromised by the dementia.

She would call at 11pm to say her diabetic nurse hadn't been. The nurse would come at 11am but mum forgot there were two 11 o'clock's in a day and wouldn't figure out why it was dark.

She then began calling in the early hours asking when her mini bus was coming to take her to her Day Centre.

We helped with cleaning, clothes washing and her appointments. I covered 27 appointments in one year because of her heart and diabetes. There was no way I could return to work when our DS reached school age. Who'd employ someone who had to have 27 days off just for appointments for their mum?

Mum finally went into a care home after a series of falls and her wandering off at 4.00am. She thought it was 4.00pm and went to find her Day Centre mini bus.

Luckily she was in sheltered housing and the main door was locked.

She finally died last year after two years in care. We were lucky as it was a great home, she was cared for very well.

Many families are battling for a lot longer to try to keep mum or dad at home. A lot of families get into real financial hardship with dementia. We need to find a way of getting help more quickly, making the whole system fairer. Not this 'illness lottery' that says if you get dementia we'll take your savings, your home and any other assets but if you have a different illness you can pass that on.

It is not the fault of the person, nor their family, that they get dementia. If homes are sold for dementia patients then they should be sold for all care. Otherwise we need to find a better way.

If you've got to the end of this...thank you!

Booknooks · 07/09/2021 15:36

Your dad's pension is at least £75k minimum? I'm sure you can appreciate that is unusual.

midsomermurderess · 07/09/2021 15:37

There is no discernible plan, though is there? Many commentators, from both left and right, are saying it's a bit cart before horse. How is this money going to be spent, what are the reforms to the system to be? And to exclude from any of the cost of this rise people who derive income from property and shares is unacceptable. Even not lowering the rate of NI for higher earners would raise huge amounts. It is such an unjust way to raise money for social care. And while the opposition is currently weak, the electorate doesn't quickly forgive or forget a government breaking its promises.

Realyorkshiretea · 07/09/2021 15:37

@Islamorada so to care about wealthy grandparents the poor should be happy to subsidise them? Yet it isn’t ‘uncaring’ for those wealthy grandparents to expect them to do so? Alright…

Rosehip10 · 07/09/2021 15:38

Tory party supports selfish pensioners and boomers - which in the main vote for them, so no surprise.

Also why do any threads relating to stuff like this bring out the deluded boomers who drone on about high interest rates and sleeping in a sack for 10 years to afford their (now incredibly valuable) houses. Fuck off with your "if young people didn't buy starbucks then they could afford a house" Biscuit

usernamealreadytaken · 07/09/2021 15:39

@bagelsandoranges do you think you'd pay less tax under any other administration?

usernamealreadytaken · 07/09/2021 15:41

"Can be up to £11 a week for some people! That could be almost £50 a month for some individuals which is a lot to take out of the monthly budget"

@Marrino1305 anyone paying that amount is earning well over £50k - even if the rise had been applied only on income tax as some are saying would be "fairer", they would be paying that if not more.

Porcupineintherough · 07/09/2021 15:42

@Boomkin

How many in their 60s and 70s did a degree? 10% if that? You make it sound like that’s a bad thing, when in fact it’s wonderful. They could just walk into a job and get paid from day 1. Nobody had to spend 3 years at university not earning just to open the door to a potential job. Or 4 years given that nowadays young people need a masters to differentiate themselves because a degree is no longer enough. Nobody had to rack up £60-80k debt just to be able to apply for a job. My Dad left school on Friday and walked into a job on Monday, and within a few years he was promoted to supervisor and bought a house by the age of 21. That’s impossible nowadays.
I guess today's 18 year olds arent quite so bursting with skills as your father clearly was. But I quite like my architects/biologists/doctors/ecologists/engineers/forensic scientists/archaeologists/lawyers/dentists/business managers etc qualified thanks.
XingMing · 07/09/2021 15:43

Politics was taught in schools, but it was scaled back from 5% of curriculum to 'nice to have'. I qualified to teach Citizenship (second career) and the rules changed as I started applying for jobs. No jobs, unless I moved a long way from DH and DS.

Believe me, you have never seen boredom quite like that shown by 30 Y9s asked to consider the relative advantages of voting systems. Like it or not, people only start to consider politics important when they wake up to experiencing its effects via their pay cheques and deductions.

Babyroobs · 07/09/2021 15:43

@cptartapp

Attendance allowance isn't means tested. That's intended for social care, gardeners, taxis etc. You can be a millionaire and still claim it. PIL claim it and FIL tells us he has more money coming in now through savings and investments than when he was working. MIL who slates the NHS at every opportunity, hasn't worked a day in over 50 years so this 'paid their dues' that many spout is often nonsense.
Both my in laws claimed AA. When they died they had literally thousands in the bank, they never spent it at all. In my job I regularly help people with 100k in the bank to claim AA. I also cannot believe some of the people who get awarded it. My friends dad gets it. At her wedding he was dancing round the dance floor. He had cancer many years ago seems to get it based on this. It certainly doesn't stop him doing anything, he looks after grandkids, walks the dog etc. There seems to be little in the way of checking that it is going to the right people.
Claudethecat · 07/09/2021 15:45

This thread really is an eye opener. So much hate misdirected hate towards older people. They don't make the rules on tax and pensions, governments do. The majority of people in England voted Tory, why is anyone surprised they are not going after the wealthy, including wealthy older people?

Peregrina · 07/09/2021 15:45

Boris is not a magician able to pull large amounts of money out thin air, neither are the other political leaders who seem very short of ideas themselves

Only when it's for his chums and then (taxpayers) money is no object.

Sunnyfreezesushi · 07/09/2021 15:46

I am ok with the concept of this tax. I think as a society we are ageing and we need to address this. Hospitals overwhelmed with elderly with low medical needs but high care needs and nowhere to go. If we have an efficient publicly funded elderly care system like the Nhs I am on board. I want everyone to be able to stay in their own home and be cared for as long as possible.
I do agree that inheritance tax thresholds should be lowered though. I also agree that wealthy pensioners should also pay towards this somehow. But taxing assets is more complicated so perhaps extra income tax for those not paying the extra NI because they are already retired.